Why No Katrina Stories From Iowa?
by Big Dog on Jun 13, 2008 at 14:06 Political
There is terrible flooding in Cedar Rapids Iowa and Des Moines is under a voluntary evacuation order as rivers swell and rise to the tops of levees. Cedar Rapids is under water and 15 people have died as a result of the flooding. Of course this story has been in the news but I can’t help but wondering where all the network trailers are. I can’t help wondering where FEMA is and where are all the protesters demonstrating against perceived government inaction on this one?
Also, where are all the dead bodies floating around while hoodlums roam the streets shooting at people and looting stores?
What is it about this storm that is at least as bad, if not worse, than Katrina that has left us without stories of devastation caused by the government’s failure to swoop in and help people? Why don’t we have music stars on TV holding a telethon to raise money while they proclaim that George Bush hates white people?
Why is it that teen aged boys, members of the Boy Scouts, were able to respond immediately to render first aid to the injured and dig out those trapped in the rubble when adults in New Orleans seemed incapable of helping themselves?
Perhaps this goes back to the thoughts I had about dependence on government. Those in New Orleans have ridden the back of government programs for so long they did not know how to care for themselves. The leadership they needed from state and local politicians was non existent with the governor crying and the mayor lying in the fetal position sucking his thumb on the upper floors of a hotel. The people were ill prepared because their leadership was ill prepared.
Certainly there was blame at the federal level and things could have run more smoothly but there is no battalion of federal employees traipsing around Iowa and they seem to be surviving.
It all comes down to people taking responsibility for one’s own life and helping others in need.
My prayers are with those folks in Iowa affected by this terrible storm. Thanks goodness they had the ability to fend for themselves or the death toll could have been much higher.
Tags: cedar rapids, fema, floods, iowa, katrina, new orleans
Sir, just a couple of ‘fun’ facts. From my understanding, once a Gov declares ‘state of emergency’ and wh confirms it, all local/state and Fed agencies are put on notice & engaged. As to time for response, I believe in the (FOUR) 2004 hurricanes that struck FL, fema/and company were on hand the next day. In the Katrina evacuation, not only was NOLA evacuating, so was the entire southern coastal communites of La, Ms, Al and panhandle of FL…all were under hurricane threat. It took 10 hrs on highways to get to a normal 45 minute destination. All shelters, hotels, churches, schools, private homes, private/public community centers, convention centers (most not allowing pets)…etc were filled from NOLA to Little Rock, AR- Memphis, TN- N. Georgia, N. Alabama, N. Texas and all points in all directions were filled to capacity with evacuees. Fuel was depleted, supplies depleted and stores, restaurants & businesses were closed in preparation for the hurricane. Also, as a hurricane is making landfall, outer bands are severe, so the highways are closed (for emergency vehicles only) several hours before landfall and residents are ordered to shelter in place (not just LA but all hurricane prone areas) As to the warning (must not have ck’d timeline?) Katrina went across FL FRIDAY PM Cat 1- SAT Cat 2 in Gulf moving west – SUNDAY AM Cat 4 Cat 5 moving west- MONDAY 6 AM hit Buras, LA Cat 3or4 and a few hrs later hit LA/MS stateline and travelled into MS & AL. Actually not a lot of time wasted when you are moving millions of people from 4 states all at the same time.
Isn’t it time to retire the “below sea level” canard, what with current events?
Oh, and it wasn’t Nagin or Blanco who gutted FEMA, downgraded it, and staffed it with cronies without any disaster management experience. Today’s FEMA has twice the permanent staff it had in 2005, and is headed by a former fire chief, not a horse show lawyer. It still ain’t what it was in the Witt years, but if the massive bungling of Katrina hadn’t embarrassed the administration into reforming some of FEMA’s most egregious problems, Iowa might be seeing a rather different disaster response. You *do* know Iowans are getting federal assistance from FEMA and other agencies, right? They’re not all getting by on sheer pluck?
speaking as someone who traveled to NOLA after Katrina to bring aid and provide relief, and I have also been to Iowa and met the people there.
In NOLA the CITY of, culture was different than OUTSIDE New Orleans, most of the affected areas came back fairly quick. INSIDE New Orleans, the people seem to wait for someone to do it for them.
We were in the first group of relief workers allowed in the 9th ward. We saw the devastation, and I think it was far greater than in Iowa.
I also know that the vast majority of the population in New Orleans were wanting EVERYONE else to fix the problem with out lifting an arm to assist.Those outside of New Orleans, pitched in and assisted the relief workers and helped their neighbors.
I see a lot of the “Neighbors” helping “Neighbors” going on in Iowa, it would have been nice to see or been involved in more of that in New Orleans.
Roberts last blog post..Put in your REQUEST’S NOW!
I am dumbfounded at the response this article has received – much of it completely irrelevant to the article. How can anyone have read this article and come to the conclusion that the author “hates” the people in New Orleans?
The comparison and contrast between the two events (the Iowa floods and Hurricaine Katrina), and the outcomes of those events is noteworthy, and I definitely think there are some lessons to be learned.
Anyone who has visited both places (Iowa, and southernmost Louisiana) can tell you there are many differences in the cultures.
With all duly-noted exceptions, the Iowa farmers tend to be very independent-minded. In contrast, there was, indeed, a disproportional amount of the population in the most televised part of New Orleans during the Katrina aftermath that was on public assistance prior to the storm. This difference in mindset surely played a role in the expectations of the people affected, and how they reacted immediately after the disaster.
Wow, Big Dog, you can really attract the nutcases, can’t you? You’ve actually got someone posting that the fact that New Orleans was below sea level had nothing to do with the flooding. Wow.
As your article mentioned and Jenn just pointed out — the observations of the REACTIONS OF THE RESIDENTS is the key here. I am willing to bet that in 2 years there will not be residents of Iowa suing the federal government because they lived in their trailers for 2 years. There is a different culture, the few rational commenters here not withstanding.
Sure, there were some residents of New Orleans that just started rebuilding — but the majority did not. The majority sat and waited for government. Government will throw cash at anything that will get them votes, so comparing cash payouts is stupid. Just watch the people and how they react. In Iowa, they’re not sitting around waiting for cash and trailers and the majority in New Orleans did.
Admittedly, Witt ran FEMA much better and had experience. Buddy Young, appointed by Clinton, was a Rodeo clown. All presidents put their friends in office. Not saying it is right, just what happens.
FEMA’s standard response time is 72 hours. If they can get there earlier, great, but their work is based on a 72 hour YOYO (You’re On Your Own).
As Jenn pointed out, I don’t hate the people of NO. The mindset, as pointed out by Ogre, is key to the reactions of the people. Bushwack, who was there, had first hand experience in this attitude.
The basis for the reality big dog and his cohorts live in is so far off-base it’s hard to know where to even begin. I’ll just take the last commenter.
“I am willing to bet that in 2 years there will not be residents of Iowa suing the federal government because they lived in their trailers for 2 years. There is a different culture, the few rational commenters here not withstanding”
There probably won’t be an Iowans suing the government for that particular reason, though, based on our experience, some may find a valid reason or two.
Just scope of the disaster area makes this idea absurd. There’s no valid comparison that is fair to Iowa, or NOLA (or MS, etc). To take ONLY new orleans, water sat in 80% of the city for weeks. power, gas, water etc were off for much, much longer. people were not allowed to return in many cases. And even if they did, where in the heck would they live? Where would they work? Ya know, since the companies they worked for were gone too. and the schools. And the restaurants. And the grocery stores, and the gas stations. And the people to work in them.
The level of “don’t get it” you guys have is pretty much insurmountable. and your comment about the “culture” is probably the most revealing part of the above quote. Once you’ve made the decision to somehow separate yourself from those you’ve decided are lesser than you for *ahem* “cultural” reasons, reason pretty much goes out the window.
More important than all that, this nola resident sends out his prayers (and donations) to the folks in the midwest who are going through a form of hell on Earth that we understand only too well. What’s worse, is that it’s only beginning. Because by and large Iowans didn’t have flood insurance and therefore they will certainly need some sort of government bailout to rebuild there homes. (Most people don’t have tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars just sitting in savings accounts) Despite initial claims to the contrary, New Orleans has significantly higher rates of flood insurance participation http://thethirdbattleofneworleans.blogspot.com/2006/03/if-you-tell-lie-big-enough-and-keep_19.html , which, honestly, you would expect since mortgage companies require it in this area….
The reasons why people are in (formeldahyde ridden) trailers after 2+ years is not something that could even remotely be explained in a comment to an ignorant blog post. But if you honestly believe it’s because people are just lazy, you are quite mistaken. And just writing people off as lazy without any knowledge of how and why they got where they makes you look like an assh****.
pretty much everything you guys think you know about Katrina is wrong.
Sharn, tell me exactly when you provided any relief or assistance in New Orleans to Katrina victims? tell me when you have had any interaction with those affected by the disaster…. Please I can’t wait to hear. Until then you are doing nothing but reciting what you have read about.
I am talking about folks sitting on rubble drinking beer and smoking watching us clear out houses, then asking when we are going to get to theirs? Do you think I took my team into NOLA to help those type people? Hell no We helped those that were willing to help themselves, the rest can learn how to swim.
The arrogance of folks that did not participate in the recovery of towns and cities acting like they have a clue is very insulting and Sharn you should STFU about what you do not know.
Roberts last blog post..CONGRATULATIONS!
I live here. My own house in mid-city flooded as did the homes of the vast majority of my family and friends.we snuck back into the city in October and my wife and I gutted it ourselves, just the two of us. We were able to because my parents in a neighboring parish did not flood. We received flood insurance and $2k from FEMA in the immediate aftermath. we ended up selling our flooded home after a wasting money on a worthless contractor and of course losing money on the sale. This after a year of renting an apartment and paying a mortgage on the worthless, flooded home simultaneously. We bought a home in the unflooded area of the city. We helped numerous neighbors with our own two hands when we weren’t working on our own house. And we still are.
I’m not reciting something that I do not know. I live it every day.
Oh and by the way. Thank you for coming down and pitching in. I mean that in all seriousness. I don’t disagree with you being angry at those who pontificate from afar with no on-the-ground perspective. That’s why I commented in the first place.
Iowa didnt need help because Iowa executed THE PLAN and was prepared.
To this date, NO has not organised a plan for the contingency of another hurricane, has had BILLIONS poured into it.
Okay, you’re from NO, riddle me this.
Post HERE or send to GM, the integrated evac plan for NO.I will email to GM the evac and disaster plans for the entire continent of Auatralia, broken down by suburb.
We have plans within plans, wheels within wheels, prepared to a fare thee well. Each suburb has its own precinct and its own emergency service unit which makes preparations for emergencies, and when one hits, all we do is call em out and follow THE PLAN.
When was the last evac drill in NO?
Where is the fastest way out for you?
How far is it form where you live to the local Civil Defence areas?
Who is your Civil Defence commander?
Does your planner have access to helicopters for aerial coordination?If not, why not?
Is the plan available at the local police station?
If not? why not?
Where are your food drops? Water drops?
Has there been a meeting to discuss emergency planning? If not, why nnt?
..and if you cant answer these questions. then the reason NO was such a f**kup will be as plain as the nose on your face.
Lemme give you a hint, and maybe you can take this to mayor “I am the man” Nagin.
NO failed to prepare and got hammered.
Question:
WHAT preparations have been made SINCE Katrina for disaster management?
As a past disaster planner and veteran emergency services officer, allow me to lead you in song
Repeat after me..all together now… and a one..and a two…
Prior preparation prevents piss poor performance.
Here endeth the lesson.
Then I apologize for the outburst, but the fact remains that the cultures ARE DIFFERENT. Those that have been a custom to hand outs, are less likely to fend for themselves than those that have been fending for themselves all along. If you don’t believe it look at the places hit by disasters prior to Katrina and after, look at the poverty level, the political structure and the culture of the populous.
And no it’s not a racial thing, look at the trailer parks hit by tornadoes, the folks that help their neighbors rather than waiting for help usually get very little media play because they are back to normal quicker.
In the area of Slidell we witnessed folks whose home was DESTROYED, offering help to those homeowners that had a chance to recover things. that is the difference between OUTSIDE the City of N.O and inside it.
Selfishness and Criminals… Demorat corrupt politicians that would rather point the finger of blame than lift a finger to help.
This topic is very near and dear to my heart and my sympathy goes out to those still dealing with the fallout, but SOME OF THE BLAME LIES WITHIN! deal with it.
Roberts last blog post..CONGRATULATIONS!
Yo man, I feel ya. You got a plan? I could not believe my eyes. Hurricane coming, oh no! It passed us by, wheh. I awoke to the horror of flooding! My care was for the people, the animals, and I didn’t care who you were.
Fast forward. I’m a racist? To hell with you! (Not you literally.) No, forgive them for they know not of what they speak. Continue. Day in, day out, “You’re a racist!” “You hate black people!”
Oh yeah? Have you met my friends? I’m sure they would disagree! Whatever, whatever, right? So…when are you going to show ME some love?!? When do I get the compassion you seek?
Ya see, when people complain and they call me names, I usually ignore them because of the emotions at the moment. LET IT GO! With all of the false news reports that followed, I’m not concerned anymore. Honest to goodness.
THE MEDIA called me a racist, NO called me a racist, THE DEMOCRATS called me a racist, and why? Political points baby, that’s all it was.
ARE YOU AWARE that out of a town where there is 80% black/20% white, 50% whites died??? DID YOU HEAR THAT??? NO? I wonder why not. What about Mississippi? I did not hear them crying. What about Florida? Yes, they had a hurricane at the same time, but it wasn’t being reported because it wouldn’t help bring down a president.
That is what this whole thing turned into, thanks to the Democrat Party and the media. They don’t give a crap about NO, nor anyone who lives there. Do I? Yes, even after all I have said in anger, I still do. You are still my brothers and sisters, and that will NEVER changed. I sure do hope some hearts and minds do, however…
I’d love to read all these comments but there’s just to much ignorance and lunacy here to dig through. It is interesting that so many folks who couldn’t make it out of New Orleans have so much knowledge and have computers and internet access to spend their day here arguing.
If you’re insulted that someone would point out the differences between the two situations, you need to grow a little thicker skin. You’re just way to easily insulted. But I suspect it has nothing to do with being insulted. I has much more to do with trolling.
Big Dog, I wouldn’t waste much time or effort arguing with morons. That’s just what they want you to do. Their goal is to waste your time and piss you off. Just be happy that they are wasting their time. I learned a long time ago that it doesn’t pay to engage the trolls. Just let them flap their lips and ignore them.
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/16576203/detail.html
Goes to show there are all kinds. There are good and bad everywhere. I think we hit on that about 50 comments ago.
Perhaps they were NO transplantees to Indiana.
That was just a joke so don’t all you NO folks get your panties in a wad.
Big Dog,
There were a lot of very good points made by people from New Orleans that you ignored, in particular, those describing situational factors that impacted the decision to evacuate or to stay, and those that affected the ability to begin rebuilding right away. Those points made must be very difficult to rebut or I imagine you would have.
Also, I pulled the following from comments you made:
How do you subsidize working a place where most folks are not working.
The city has a majority poor population that is used to living off the government, just plain simple facts.
Could you please give me a reference or two to support your contention that the majority of New Orleanians are unemployed and “living off the government.” Since these are indeed “just plain simple facts,” it should be easy to substantiate them.
When you make sweeping generalizations about the people of New Orleans like those quoted above, I get the impression that for you, black=poor=living off the government & waiting around for a handout. I’m guessing that you saw more black faces on TV than white in the aftermath of Katrina, so the rest naturally followed. Stereotyping seems to come easily for you.
For the record, I personally know of a number of people, black and white, who ended up at the Superdome and Convention Center after The Storm. Not one of them was on any kind of public assistance. All had jobs. One was a single mother and full-time university student who had no transportation and nowhere else to go when the university closed the campus apartment building in which she and her son lived. Two stayed because of elderly parents who refused to leave. Two couples I know evacuated to hotels in the downtown area, as they’d done on countless other occasions when storms threatened. (One of these was my long-time neighbor from the U.K.) Three worked for hotels that stayed open to accommodate guests who were unable to secure transportation out of the city. (Many airlines canceled flights long before the weather became a factor. The story is that they didn’t want to fly empty planes in-bound to NOLA.) One was a nurse working in a hospice unit in Eastern NOLA. She volunteered to stay with the sick patients who could not be moved. She had her two children with her. They were rescued and taken to the Dome.
I know many others who stayed and didn’t end up at the Dome or Convention Center. But I can tell you that not a single one of them made that decision with some conscious and cavalier expectation that the government would take care of them. Really, I can’t imagine ANYONE saying to themselves, “Well, I’ll just stay in what may become a living hell and just wait for the government to come rescue and take care of me.” That you or anyone else would believe this is just insane to me. Do you really think people made this kind of choice when they had other, realistic and viable options? People did what they were able to do with the resources they had. There’s only so much food and water you can carry with you to a shelter, only so much you can afford to buy and store. And there was a lot of neighbor helping neighbor going on here, and this when there was very little at hand to help each other with. It’s such a terrible shame that you discount this. What a slap in the face to the many people who helped their neighbors regardless of their own losses. There are so many stories, so many unsung local heroes, but maybe it’s not surprising that you don’t know this because these people have never sought any kind of attention for themselves.
This brings me to one more, very disturbing thing you said about people from New Orleans:
The real workers, the worthwhile people, returned to rebuild.
I’ve heard that kind of language before. The guy who said it had them firing up furnaces for those not deemed “worthwhile.”
LIsaPals last blog post..T’is the Season (Letters, we get letters…)
One more thing…
You and some of your readers may want to check following article out. You’ll either need access to a library journal database or will have to pay for a copy:
What Went Wrong in New Orleans? An Examination of the Welfare Dependency Explanation
by Timothy Brezina
Georgia State University
ABSTRACT: The impact of Hurricane Katrina was especially dramatic in New Orleans, where catastrophic flooding threatened the lives of thousands of residents who did not or could not evacuate before the storm. To explain the large number of residents who did not evacuate in time, some commentators blame a lack of government aid and assistance for the poor while others fault an excessive dependence of the poor on government. Welfare dependency theorists, in particular, contend that a dependency-induced “mentality of helplessness” was prevalent among New Orleans’ poor and helps to account for the incomplete evacuation. To gauge the plausibility of this argument, I use data from a unique survey to examine the characteristics of New Orleanians who were trapped in the flooded city. The findings indicate that, contrary to the expectations of welfare dependency theorists, more than half of the New Orleanians in question were employed full time before the storm and most displayed initiative after the disaster. Furthermore, in multivariate analyses, characteristics highlighted by dependency theorists did not predict the odds of pre-storm evacuation. Other explanations for the incomplete evacuation are explored.
LIsaPals last blog post..T’is the Season (Letters, we get letters…)
LisaPals, sounds like you have been sipping at the professors trough for far too long. Listen, or Read above comments from people that were on the ground. FOLKS that dropped everything, put their lives on hold in order to assist their fellow man no matter what color they were….. A LOT OF PEOPLE DID THAT!
And EVERYONE I talked to when I was there during that time had stories exactly like I had. About people that wondered around waiting for someone to fix everything for them with out them lifting a finger…. while the generalization implies that EVERYONE was like that, I assure you they were not. You can look at the area’s outside NOLA to see WHO and WHAT worked hard to get their area back to normal.
You imply it was racism that kept folks from helping in NOLA? uh well Maybe it had to do with the criminal element as well.
Several poor folks we helped in the 9th ward were helping us help them, but there were just as many sitting around drinking and watching, waiting for us to get to their house…
I could tell you a few stories about the lower 9th ward and St Bernards Perrish but you are too high on your horse to believe or understand the point BD is making. You are conditioned to cry racist, rightwing nazi at everything so you should just leave the discussion to adults.
Roberts last blog post..CONGRATULATIONS!
Sharn said, “The reasons why people are in (formeldahyde ridden) trailers after 2+ years is not something that could even remotely be explained in a comment to an ignorant blog post.”
Gee, too bad. Because I’d really like to hear the explanation. I know I’ve been homeless, and once I decided I didn’t want to live off other people, I managed to find a job and work so I could take care of myself.
Gee, Robert. What does my profession have to do with any of this? How does it impede my ability to understand an event in the city where I was born, raised and have lived all my life? I guess because I teach at a university, (you obviously visited my blog), that automatically makes me an “elitist” in your eyes. Why don’t you tell me exactly what that means to you. All I can see is Argumnentum ad hominem and more stereotyping. You don’t know me. If there had been no link to my blog and therefore no insight into how I earn a living, what would you have resorted to as a basis for refuting my points? Sorry, but from here, it doesn’t look like you really got what I was saying.
What you did do was claim that I’m up here “on my high horse” with my knee-jerk cries of “racism” because I questioned the reasoning in those comments asserting that “most” people here don’t work and are living off the dole, just waiting for people to so everything for them. I simply posited the only line of reasoning I could come up with for Big Dog having reached such a conclusion. Give me a better reason than what I proposed and I’ll gladly concede.
While you’re at it, show me where I implied that racism stopped people from helping folks down here. Quote me to support it. That might be tough because all I did was take issue with the basis for the “welfare” conclusions. I never said or implied anything about people coming from elsewhere to help us, much less what motivated or failed to motivate them. You brought that up. And did I discount a single contribution from anyone from outside of NOLA who came down here and helped us? No, I didn’t. What did I say that made you think I didn’t know about all the people from outside New Orleans who selflessly gave of themselves to help people down here? I simply addressed the notion that people in Iowa helped each other while people in NOLA sat around waiting for outside sources to do the work for them. This couldn’t be more untrue and it’s not an either-or proposition. Many kind-hearted and compassionate people came from all over and helped a traumatized city on the path to rebuilding. We appreciate that more than you apparently know and have never failed to shoe gratitude for that. But we weren’t passive observers who did nothing for ourselves.
What’s really hard to stomach is you telling me that I have to look outside the city to find those people who have “lifted a finger to help themselves.” What is your basis for this claim? Please, Robert, tell me what the difference is between the people who live in New Orleans and the people who live outside the city in places like Slidell. Go ahead. Tell me what you think it is. All of us who live here have a pretty good idea of why you would say that. But why don’t you go ahead tell us the difference as you see it.
For the record, I’m not on any “high horse.” I AM on the ground here. I gutted my house with my own hands and was joined on many occasions by other actual New Orleanians with generous hearts full of love.
All I tried to do is shine some light on a bunch of baseless generalizations made about New Orleans and the people who live here. I give props to Big Dog for conceding a lot of things just as we didn’t try to defend his assertions about local politics that we know to be, for the most part, true.
Finally.we might all do well to refrain from judgment in general until we’ve walked a mile in the other guys shoes.
LIsaPals last blog post..T’is the Season (Letters, we get letters…)
I’ll repeat the question
WHAT PLANS have been made to deal with the next natural disaster?
Sonnabend: The initial plan is, obviously, to get people out of New Orleans in advance of an approaching hurricane. The basis of the plan is for individuals to get a minimum of 90 miles away and preferably much further. There are no shelters within 30 miles of the city operated by the Red Cross as those kinds of fully staffed shelters will not be placed below I-12. The plan pre-katrina was largely informed by previous evacations and by the hurricane Pam exercise in July 2004, described here: http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/ops/hurricane-pam.htm
The most recent similar exercise to hurricane pam was performed in May of 2006. Beyond that, the notion of performing drills will perhaps thousands of coastal residents drive out of theoretical harm’s way obviously won’t work. And people in south LA and MS have performed this task several times since 1998 when Hurricane Georges approached.
one of the key components of these evacuations is when they begin to be called and the notion of “contraflow” where all roads out of the city and away from the cost, including inbound interstate lanes are redirected. Interesting, Houston TX and its surrounding area did not have contraflow in affect for the evacuation from Rita. It was strange seeing empty inbound interstate lanes into Houston on TV.
The big challenge, of course, is what to do with the poor, the indigent, etc. who don’t have independent transportation? The old plan was to get them to the relatively safe confines of the dome and/or convention center. And according to the Pam exercise, these #s were going to be much higher than they actually were for Katrina. And then you would have to wait for busses staged outside of the city to come in and start pulling people out. Now, of course, the plan is to try and pick them up all over the city and bus them out. Not really sure that that is going to work too well. http://www.nola.com/timespic/stories/index.ssf?/base/news-9/1212643879114130.xml&coll=1
Overall, the contraflow evacuation plan during Katrina worked better than it had in the past (Georges, Ivan). “over 80% of the population succeeded in fleeing the area in advance of the storm. source: “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_preparedness_for_New_Orleans” 80% was far higher than the Pam exercise or any other previous estimate. That wikipedia link has a lot more about the history of evactuation and planning in the area more:http://www.planning.org/katrina/reader/plannningmay2006.htm . Had the levees not broken after being subjected to forces far lower than they had purportedly been designed and build to withstand, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
the homeland security chief for New Orleans (Civil Defense equivalent) is retired Col Terry Ebbert. He’s retiring, though: http://www.nola.com/timespic/stories/index.ssf?/base/news-9/1213161723207940.xml&coll=1
City of New Orleans evac plans page: http://www.cityofno.com/pg-46-17-state-evacuation-maps.aspx and as published in the local paper:
http://www.nola.com/hurricane/data/nagin_guide.html
State plans: http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/plansindex.htm
The contraflow maps and instructions: http://www.contraflowmaps.com/ These are a google maps mashup of the official maps the state publishes. The maps are everywhere, the local papers, grocery stores, etc.
Article about planning and recent “lessons learned” from Katrina evac: http://www.nola.com/hurricane/areweready2006/t-p/index.ssf?/hurricane/areweready2006/stories/evacuation.html
Published 6/1/2008 in the T-P: http://adserver1.harvestadsdepot.com/newotimespic/ss/080150/
The discussion to *prevent* the type of catastrophic loss experienced during Katrina and reduce future vulnerabilty is a different subject from immediate emergency planning. I turn your attention to http://www.levees.org as one potential starting point.
Sonnabend,
The comment system has eaten 3 attempts now to answer your question regarding plans. I assume that due to the # of links required in my detailed reply that the spam prevention system is trapping the post. If it’s in a moderation queue somewhere, BigDog or someone else will have to free one of the attempted responses.
Hindsight can be an awful thing–particularly when people use it to predict the past.
Let’s deal with some facts that have gone unremarked.
90% of the population evacuated. That’s a LOT of people, yes?
Now we’ve heard of rescues from this latest flood. Rescues. That means that some portion of these people who are being lauded didn’t evacuate. What portion? More or less than 10%? That’s an important number. If it’s more than ten percent it means that the people in New Orleans did BETTER than the current crop
And let’s look at the ones who stayed behind.
Some of them felt they could weather the storm–and some did. Among them are the first people who tried to rescue people.
And some of those made the wrong choice. They became those who needed rescue–all at their own fault.
Some were incapable of leaving–for whatever reason. Age, disability, even poverty. They were just unable.
Some of them fared well, and some didn’t. Some of them performed heroically. Some just broke down.
And some fraction of all of that were bad. What percentage? We don’t really know–we DO know that it wasn’t ALL of them.
But that percentage got pretty much ALL the press.
And now, in hindsight the city is judged by that fraction of 10%. The others, the ones who did everthing they were supposed to do, and the ones who went over and above, are judged by that small fraction of their population who were bad.
What about the ones who did the right thing? Is it wrong that they wonder when the insurance will pay? Is it wrong that they are fed up with the various bureacracies that are holding back rebuilding? Is it wrong that the bitch when a ‘repaired’ levee is leaking? THEY did what they were supposed to do. Some of them did much, much more.
And yet they are judged on the behavior of their worst. By people whose wisdom stems only from hindsight.
LIsaPal said: ‘Finally.we might all do well to refrain from judgment in general until we’ve walked a mile in the other guys shoes.’
Amen. I feel we deserve the respect of our fellow citizens and the recognition that one zip code (the Lower Ninth) is not a fair representation of our flooded city where over a dozen zip codes flooded. While many a good family lived in the lower ninth, it was also one of our poorest and very most violent neighborhoods and the most likely place for your stolen car to be found – pre-k. Nevertheless, the good people of the lower nine deserve your respect, especially Fats Domino.
I can understand being too lazy to research reality re New Orleans, but assassinating our character wholesale out of ignorance is not fair to the vast majority of us and is downright un-American.
They wont give recognition to the 90% of us who evacuated before the storm or understand that many who stayed, had a totally legitimate reason to stay or the extent of the damage and the resulting barriers to rebuild or our recovery successes despite the extreme hardships. They are not at all empathetic to our grief, desperation and anguish.
These evil fellow citizens make me feel very angry and disenfranchised.
Walk a mile in my shoes? They can have my damned moldy shoes.
Ogre,
The FEMA trailer parks throughout the region are closed. http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2008/06/city_parks_used_by_fema_traile.html FEMA began shutting them down last year.
The remaining people in trailers are typically homeowners with trailers in front of their own homes working to rebuild: http://www.nola.com/timespic/stories/index.ssf?/base/news-9/1213680042220220.xml&coll=1
bendover says: ‘WHAT PLANS have been made to deal with the next natural disaster?’
Where are your plans buddy? I kind of hope you get to test your plan one day – along with a half million of your nearest neighbors.
OUR FLOODING WAS NOT BECAUSE OF A NATURAL DISASTER!!! We are victims of the worst engineering disaster this country has ever seen. Engineering negligence caused our flooding.
Our governments’ plans have improved, but I can guarantee you they are not perfect. My family’s plan is almost exactly the same plan we implemented pre-K except we will be packing more clothes and bringing more cash. Are we welcome at your house?
Ray,
There seems to be a logical leap that because there were some people acting like jerks that this is ipso facto evidence that Democrats are inherently bad and Republicans are inherently good. The notion that all this would not have happened this way if the entire area were run by Republicans is ridiculous.
In the meantime all this partisan nonsense obscures the fact that government at all levels was not prepared and still is not truly prepared for a disaster on the scale of Katrina. It can happen to anyone, anywhere in this country. There are lots of real lessons to be learned if people would take off their idealogical glasses for a minute and actually paid attention.
Sonnabend,
Since I can’t post a full set of links, I’ll have to try and point you in a few different directions since you think there are no evactuation plans for New Orleans.
The first place is nola.com which is the local paper. On the front page you’ll find a link to this year’s hurricane preparedness guide. you can go to the city of new orleans website and find a bit more or google “louisiana office of emergency preparedeness”
Another thing to google is “contraflow maps.” These are widely published. contraflow evacuation got an estimated 80% of people out of harm’s way from South LA and MS.
another thing to google is “hurricane pam”. Hurricane PAM was an exercise performed in 7/2004.
A good starting point is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_preparedness_for_New_Orleans
This link is interesting as well:
http://www.planning.org/katrina/reader/plannningmay2006.htm
“Officials at all levels of government failed to adequately plan for and respond to one of our nation’s greatest challenges. Although Louisiana officials took the heat in Washington, D.C., for their failure to plan for evacuation, research is showing that the New Orleans plan was actually better than the evacuation plans of most major American cities.”
For the record LisaPal I have never visited nor did I factually know that you were a member of the university system, I detected that in your writing.
The other thing you should realize is BD is not slamming the entire Katrina affected area. The truth hurts a little because a lot of folks DID exactly what I’m talking about. Sit back and wait for help. A lot of neighborhoods didn’t come together in the Katrina affected areas. A LOT DID, outside of N.O.
Every time I argue about this very issue with people they immediately go after the race or Republican card. so In your case it more of a “Pre-emptive” strike.
Some commenter stated they were victims of engineering flaws. EXACTLY, check the government of Louisiana for the past 50 years. Look what the mayors, Governors and even Congress of the US have done with monies allocated to shore up the levee system.
I know my problems are with those lazy worthless pieces of crap that would sit on the sidelines bitching rather than pitching in. BD simply stated that in MOST other parts of the country the disaster would have been dealt with “Internally” better than it was NOLA.
Deal with it.
Roberts last blog post..CONGRATULATIONS!
Robert,
A lot of us inside New Orleans have had a substantially different local experience than you did. Complaining about inadequate government responses to try and push change and pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps are not mutually exclusive. Both can be done simultaneously. This is the essence of “dealing with it.”
Sharn, Agreed, It should be done simultaneously. BUT it wasn’t. Part of the problem is as BD stated the culture of “Gimme” regardless of YOUR’S or anyone that did the lions share of repairing/recovering or escaping, is not part of this post, this post was regarding the difference in the gimme culture vs the INDEPENDENT culture, the folks that believe they can do it better than the government can.
You saw exactly what the rest of the world saw during the first couple of days after Katrina. THUGS shooting at rescue personal, people stealing TV’s and crap… (*NO ONE would have said a damn thing if they were stealing food and water), Cops fleeing, or in some cases helping the thieves.
What do you see in flood areas? there is an ample amount of street closures, big cities and towns are damn near swamped? the reason in the culture of gimme, and if you were not one of those, you are not the target of this post.
Roberts last blog post..CONGRATULATIONS!
No where did I indicate that the issue was Republican or Democrat or that one would run it better than the other. The Governor in Iowa is a Democrat and the legislature is a mix of both parties. They seem to be handling it well.
The poorest section of NO (and I realize NO is a big place and the generalization ticks people off) is the area that Bushwack talks about. Sure, there were plenty of good people there and I have written that several times now. However, if you are allowed to generalize that the entire administration and federal government is a failure because they did not put on capes and fly in instantly then I can generalize the same way about NO.
The evacuation plan called for 130,000 people to be left behind. That is not a good plan but would explain the buses.
As for the teacher and others who make references to Nazi, or party then you have no standing. No where did I claim to be such and no where did I espouse ideas that would demonstrate such.
My unit had hundreds of soldiers there, many of whom volunteered to go. If we felt that all people were not worth saving or belonged in ovens then they would never have deployed.
There is a difference between wanting to help people and working to do just that and then pointing out flaws that led to the problem. Comparisons to ovens and other things is uncalled for but expected from academia.
It is a comparison of culture. If you cannot see that then I feel sorry for you.
BTW, I made no comparison of black or white. Those are suppositions from commenters here. I realize that dependence and crime come in all colors as demonstrated by those who are stealing in Indiana. However, since the population of NO is 65% black, that is what you are most likely to see.
I would also point out that it could not have been too terribly bad there. William Jefferson was able to take military vehicles from their missions and go to his house to get his “belongings” and then use a rescue helicopter to leave without even visiting the people affected.
Nope, no corruption in NO. Excuse me for bringing it up.
Robert, Big Dog, I think that is what ‘ignites’ everyone…being accused of the ‘culture of gimmee’. What makes La any more of that sort of culture than any other part of the US? I have lived & visited many places in the US and believe me, there are people that expect ‘handouts’ in every major city and small town, not all one race, not all poor. What you saw on tv was what they always show on tv, the ‘trainwreck’. You see what they want you to see. ‘Shock,despair & underbelly of life! They aren’t going to show the neighbor helping neighbor (although they sure have made it a point since Katrina) Who was screaming loudest after the levees failed and days went by? Geraldo, Brian Williams, Shephard Smith, Anderson Cooper! These trained journalists that have seen wars and natural disasters, were like everyone else in shock & in disbelif. Louisiana suffered 4 hits, Katrina, federal levee failure, Rita (less than a month after Katrina) and the orchestrated bad-mouthing from day 1. It is one thing if the system is overwhelmed, it is a completely separate thing if it is being manipulated. Like they say ‘even a dog can tell the difference if it was stepped on accidently or whether it is being kicked intentionally’.
Sharn,
I approved that heavily linked comment for you.
Jack,
It sucks that 90% of the city is getting spanked for the problems exhibited by the other 10%. It also sucks that 90% of the federal government was blamed for the failure of 10% (while local government took no heat).
The difference is, Iowans are not on TV screaming that the government abandoned them and that George Bush hates them. There is not a whole lot if the MSM there because whites in tragedy are not nearly as newsworthy as poor blacks. That is not meant to be a racial statement, just my observation of the news networks. The networks and the Democrats played politics with this while the rest of us (and many of you in NO) were trying to address it and save lives.
[…] culture differences are being discussed in great length over at BigDogs (He is having server related issues sometimes you will get an error of CPU overload) Some folks […]
ALL “It sucks that 90% of the city is getting spanked for the problems exhibited by the other 10%. It also sucks that 90% of the federal government was blamed for the failure of 10% (while local government took no heat).
THAT, RIGHT THERE SAID IT ALL! Great point.
Roberts last blog post..Katrina vs OTHER Disasters on our soil.
– The MSM did not report that 90% of the people made it out. We saw the beleaguered 10% who were failed by local government and who refused to leave.
Case in point….you don’t know what the f**k your talking about.
– The difference is, Iowans are not on TV screaming that the government abandoned them and that George Bush hates them. There is not a whole lot if the MSM there because whites in tragedy are not nearly as newsworthy as poor blacks. That is not meant to be a racial statement,
yes it is….don’t dissemble…the whole post is laden with racist bias.
Give it six months and we’ll see how Iowans react when their unregulated insurance companies start denying their claims and they don’t have the money to hire a lawyer to fight them.
My heart goes out to them, I know what they will go through.
BTW, for someone who seems very critical of the MSM, how is it that you based your opinion (this post) of what happened in New Orleans entirely on the information you gleaned from the MSM?
Dambalas last blog post..Douchebag of the Month
“The local government took no heat.” what?!
Damnass, BD was correct in his statement and it is not a racial statement it is made so by a person that wants to argue and has no basis for argument.
RACIST is the cry most used by the lefty idiots that want to throw in their two cents but only have one.
CASE AND POINT A$$wipe, I do know what I’m talking about and besides the fact that you may have a different view, I can point you to over 300 volunteers that had the same type experiences WE had when we were there.
Being from the area, like some of the commenter’s here you folks might be used to seeing the culture of corruption, so much so it blinds you, FOLKS from other parts of the nation see it as a Problem you see it as the norm. I am telling you it is not normal to shoot at rescue personal. just a hint.
Roberts last blog post..Katrina vs OTHER Disasters on our soil.
Robert, you f**king fool….how long were you here? I’ve been here all my life…I was here through the entire event. You saw what you wanted to see…not what led to the disaster. Abject poverty, a failed public school system and dying economy were the catalyst….take a look around this country…we’re not the only ones facing these issues.
What you fail to understand is that many of the people in this city had no means of transportation to get out. The bus issue is a moot point…the city admin. wasn’t aware of the busses (yes it was their fault) and even if they were it would have been a drop in the bucket to the masses of people left stranded. A natural disaster on the magnitude of Katrina requires a federal response and aide.
Bring your stupid ass and all the 300 volunteers down here and live the day to day life of this city. Experience the enormous challenges we’ve faced since Katrina and our struggle to rebuild our city. You have no f**king idea what your talking about…nor does Big Dog…
As for the culture of corruption in New Orleans….I can assure you I know more about it than you do. And I can assure you that the corruption in this city is pale in comparison to the level of corruption on a federal level.
If you see corruption as a problem…you would be crying for impeachment. You only see what you want to see sh*t for brains.
Dambalas last blog post..Douchebag of the Month
For the record I would be absolutely fine with impeachment OF ALL THE POLITICIANS douchbag.
You hear what you want to hear as well idiot, you are just part and parcel of the victim mentality swine that have caused most of the damage to that fine city.
While I do not know of your exploits I can sense a direct involvement at some level, AND I AGREE that the politicians before and during the disaster caused more harm than good, from the bottom up, but rarely does one mention NAGIN as a catalyst, or Blanco…. it’s all the FEDS it’s all FEMA it’s all the RED CROSS, it’s all about the “President hating black people” F**k you. Its about lazy ass SOB’s sucking at the gubmint teet and whining when the milk went dry.
Deal with it a$$ wipe.
Roberts last blog post..Katrina vs OTHER Disasters on our soil.
Ladies and gentlemen. I appreciate spirited discussion and love a good argument. However, I would appreciate it if you would not use vulgarities. There is a rules link above if you are unfamiliar with the rules here.
Thanks
Ann Coulter was right. The victim mentality is such in this country that once someone (or some group) is labeled a victim you are never allowed to say anything about the victim regardless of what they do.
I did not base this on what I got from the MSM. You make that assumption.
This post is not full of racial overtones. If you see it that way it is because you see race in everything.
Sorry about the vulgarities BD.
But sometimes discussing this particular issue makes my blood boil.
Dealing with the %^&&&*** lefty F*$%$#%% S.O.B’s and Moth%$$#$$$^%^ so-called “Victims” can not be done without a few good vulgarities thrown in…
Roberts last blog post..Katrina vs OTHER Disasters on our soil.
Robert,
No numnuts…I blame all of them, Bush, Blanco, and Nagin. I am Nagin’s biggest critic.
I didn’t take a damn dime from the government and my house got 6 feet of water from a flood caused by Federally controlled and maintained levees….Katrina missed us….it was the gross incompetence of the Army Corps of Engineers which led to New Orleans destruction. In case you aren’t aware, because you don’t seem to be aware of very much, they have admitted this.
And Big Dog…if you didn’t base this post on information you gleaned from the MSM what did you base it on?
You list one heroic story about boy scouts and contrast it to Katrina as if there were no acts of heroism during our Tragedy. That’s pathetic…there was looting in Iowa and heroism in Iowa. There was looting in New Orleans and there was heroism in New Orleans.
You claim there are no racial undertones in your post? Why this statement?
“Why don’t we have music stars on TV holding a telethon to raise money while they proclaim that George Bush hates white people?”
No one was holding a telethon when that statement was made and it was made by a non-New Orleanian.
Dambalas last blog post..Douchebag of the Month
Ok Damnass, You are truly in the minority if you blamed Nagin and co as much as you folks blamed Bush and co.
and you are in the extreme minority if you didn’t take a dime from the government. THIS POST had nothing to do with you.
And yes there was heroism, We were out there for several days and we didn’t sit around doing nothing either, we helped a lot of folks that were willing to help themselves. We put over 500 tarps on roofs, we fed over 1000 people and we gutted more homes than we I can count. we picked up trash from slidell to the 9th ward and YES there were a lot of folks HELPING.
The post was a comparison in culture and if you can’t understand it it’s because YOU are seeing race where it isn’t YOU like most of the folks associated with AL Sharpton see race in every discussion about anything.
The fact is: There was a “gimme” culture in NOLA, and when GIMME gave out so did the people.
What did Clinton do to shore up the levees in NOLA? basically it was a failure of every leader prior and up to Bush that caused the failure of the levees, it was a failure of local gubmint during the weeks prior to the storm and it was a failure of the populous in the first 3 days after.
Folks don’t have much sympathy for thugs and corrupt politicians.
Oh I understand culture…I’m a f**king anthropologist.
You are wrong once again…almost everyone in this city blamed Nagin and Blanco as well as A.C.E, FEMA, and the Bush Admin. for a gross failure of government on all levels. I am not in a minority, and once again, YOU DON”T LIVE HERE so YOU DON’T KNOW.
You’re gleaning information from the MSM and interpreting it the way you want. This city has pulled itself up by the bootstraps since the storm and rebuilt it’s own community.
I see race where race is mentioned and bias is implied. Big Dog mentioned race as qualifier when referring to N.O. and bringing up something some stupid frikkin’ musician said which has nothing to do with the comparison between Katrina and the Iowa flood……unless he was predisposed to make it a factor.
As for a “gimme” culture….where does that not exist in America? Please…do tell. New Orleans is suddenly the capital of government subsidies? Iowa doesn’t receive government subsidies on farmland?
Let me give you a clue…about 33% of this country’s energy supply flows through Louisiana as well as about 35% of the fisheries and the majority of the imports which go up the Mississippi to places like Iowa. The stretch of the Mississippi between New Orleans and Baton Rouge is lined with the majority of the countries petro-chem plants which make the plastic needed to secure this country’s food supply. 89% of the Diesel refineries in the U.S. lie on the Texas/Louisiana border, which power the trucks which carry the food supply which we harvested and is then wrapped in the plastics which we made.
Before the storm we were getting a 1/2 of one % tax on our energy resources while states like Texas and Mississippi got up to 23%. Why? Because of corrupt politicians on the state and federal level. The Oil companies were destroying our coast line, our vital security against hurricanes, while the Fed protected them from any repercussions or tax from our state.
If anybody has subsidized anybody here…..Louisiana has been subsidizing this country for decades. If we shut down…the east coast shuts down…capiche fu*kstick?
So don’t tell me you know what you’re talking about when you imply we are a culture based on entitlement. You are living the culture based on entitlement….every time you drive your SUV to Kroger to pick up a bag of shrimp wrapped in plastic, you can thank Louisiana and be grateful that the people of this state have the will to rebuild, work their asses off and, in many cases, sacrifice their health to keep this country running.
Dambalas last blog post..Douchebag of the Month