Where Will They Go To For More Money?

I wrote before the last election indicating that there was concern that the government would take control of our retirement accounts and redistribute the money in them as part of a scheme to even the playing field. The Socialists in DC are part of the spread the wealth paradigm and they have no problem forcefully taking that to which they are not entitled. There were hearings on Capitol Hill where this was discussed.

Doug Ross indicates that this might be where the next money influx to the government comes from as they confiscate our retirement (which contains trillions of dollars) and spread it among those who have not saved for retirement.

The [Congressional] testimony of Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, in hearings Oct. 7 drew the most attention and criticism. Testifying for the House Committee on Education and Labor, Ghilarducci proposed that the government eliminate tax breaks for 401(k) and similar retirement accounts, such as IRAs, and confiscate workers’ retirement plan accounts and convert them to universal Guaranteed Retirement Accounts (GRAs) managed by the Social Security Administration.

…The current retirement system, Ghilarducci said, “exacerbates income and wealth inequalities” because tax breaks for voluntary retirement accounts are “skewed to the wealthy because it is easier for them to save, and because they receive bigger tax breaks when they do.” [Original Source Carolina Journal]

The government has already pilfered trillions of dollars in Social Security that was paid in over the years and used that money for pet projects and as a slush fund. There is no money left in Social Security and the government does not have the money to meet the obligations of Social Security. It must borrow money to pay the recipients. This would not be the case if they had left the money alone.

Instead, they will come after the money we have saved. It is there because strict rules forbid us from tapping into the retirement money until we actually retire. Congress had no such rules and raped Social Security and now the plan, at least one that was discussed in Congress, is to confiscate our retirement and use it to pay others.

This is a Socialist program and if the government goes through with this there is no doubt in my mind we will have an armed insurrection.

These bastards take enough of our money and spread it around. I will be damned if they are going to take what I have saved for my retirement without a fight.

I am sure many others feel the same way (not the slugs who would benefit from the work of others) and would be willing to fight for what is theirs.

Keep an eye on Congress. It will look for money and will take it any time it wants. The government will rape us any chance it gets so we must remain vigilant.

Buy guns and ammo. You will need them.

Big Dog

Gunline

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21 Responses to “Where Will They Go To For More Money?”

  1. Darrel says:

    Bigd: “There is no money left in Social Security…”

    DAR
    False.

    Bigd: and the government does not have the money to meet the obligations of Social Security.”>>

    DAR
    False.

    Bigd: It must borrow money to pay the recipients.”>>

    DAR
    False.

    I don’t understand and will never understand the utility you find in saying things (over and over) that are patently and objectively, false.

    And even you must know this. Realize that it was only in September when you said:

    “Social Security will be paying more than it takes in in a few short years…”

    If that’s true, then your above three claims are false.

    So which is it?

    D.
    ————
    “…variously estimated as 2041 (by the Social Security Administration[84]) or 2052 (by the Congressional Budget Office[85]), the Social Security Trust Fund will have exhausted the claim on general revenues that had been built up during the years of surplus. At that point, current Social Security tax receipts would be sufficient to fund 74 or 78% of the promised benefits, according to the two respective projections.”

    “Congress invested these surpluses into special series, non-marketable U.S. Treasury securities held by the Social Security Trust Fund. Under the law, the government bonds held by Social Security are backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government.”

    “In 2007, the cumulative excess of Social Security taxes and interest received over benefits paid out stood at $2.2 trillion.”

    See: actual data here.

    Assets as of the end of 2008 stand at $2.4 trillion.

    • Blake says:

      There REALLY is no money in SS anymore, just IOUs from both parties- but SS should never have been started in the first place, front-loaded with built in debt as it was.
      Example- The first recipient of SS was a lady who had paid in exactly 27 dollars before she retired, and yet was given 15,000 dollars in benefits, over the rest of her life- there were many more like that, so the program was in trouble from the start- and it has become no more viable now that it has been plundered, and Medicare, the OTHER socialistic program that never should have been, is even worse off.
      How ANYONE can justify these programs is beyond me. It is just a blatant display of how badly the government can and does screw up.

  2. Big Dog says:

    Not false. Social Security use to collect more than it paid out. That is not true this year. Also, the money that was supposed to be saved is not there. Without a higher tax or lower benefits they cannot meet the obligation.

    All true. They claim the funds will be exhausted by (pick a date) but that supposes they will have the money they were suppose to save.

    The bonds of which you speak are IOUs, I have mentioned them before. They are not worth the paper they are written on because there is no money to honor the obligation.

    • Darrel says:

      Bigd: Not false.>>

      DAR
      Entirely false.

      BD: Social Security use to collect more than it paid out.>>

      DAR
      And still does.

      BD: That is not true this year.>>

      DAR
      Show this.

      BD: Also, the money that was supposed to be saved is not there.>>

      DAR
      Not true. See actual data here. Other funds were spent (“invested”) and this is not SS’s problem.

      BD: Without a higher tax or lower benefits they cannot meet the obligation.>>

      DAR
      Then we can raise the taxes and lower the benefits decades from now when this is a problem.

      BD: The bonds of which you speak are IOUs,>>

      DAR
      Every dollar in your pocket is an “IOU.” I trust this hasn’t impeded your ability to find them very useful.

      BD: [these bonds] are not worth the paper they are written on because there is no money to honor the obligation.>>

      DAR
      As with your dollars. Let me know if you would like to exchange your paper dollars for some shiny paper with pretty designs on them.

      Or, I would be pleased to trade stacks of $1 bills for just a few with the $100 markings on them. After all, they are all just worthless paper.

      You made three main claims and they are all false. Let’s number them:

      1) “There is no money left in Social Security…”

      2) “the government does not have the money to meet the obligations of Social Security.”>>

      3) “It must borrow money to pay the recipients.”>>

      Would you like to try and support these claims with evidence? My link above refutes all three.

      D.

      • victoria says:

        The trust fund is fiction and you refute nothing.
        http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed111004b.cfm

      • Darrel says:

        VIC: “The trust fund is fiction…”>>

        DAR
        See 5 Myths about Social Security.

        The myth you regurgitate is a popular one, so it’s dealt with in number one.

        “Myth No. 1: There is no Social Security trust fund.”

        D.

        ps. Did you know that all of that money you and others have at the bank, is not really at the bank? It’s true. But don’t panic. They still owe it to you but they’ve invested it.

        ————–
        “Critics often deride these bonds as “a bookkeeping entry” or a fiction, but they’re real obligations of the U.S. government, said Steve Goss, Social Security’s chief actuary. In the past, they’ve been cashed in when Social Security or its sister program, Medicare, temporarily ran low on funds. The last time was in the early 1980s.

        “They’re backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government,” Goss said. “They’re every bit as real . . . as any savings bond or Treasury bond any individual might hold in society.”‘ –ibid

        Are savings bonds and Treasury bonds also “fiction” Victoria?

  3. victoria says:

    “They’re backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government,”
    hahahahahaha!!!!!!!

    • Darrel says:

      Yeah, just like every dollar in your pocket.

      If you don’t have faith in them, send them to me.

      And you didn’t answer my question:

      Are savings bonds and Treasury bonds also “fiction” Victoria?

  4. Big Dog says:

    Darrel, you are correct the dollars we have are not worth much and they will be worth much less once we have inflation. But, the IOUs for SS are in teh TRILLIONS of dollars. We have an UNFUNDED mandate because the money has been spent. The only way to honor the debt is to BORROW.

    All true.

    SS is in trouble.

    It will be hard to say exactly when because it is only in trouble when some schmuck wants you to vote for him. Then it is OK until seniors need to be scared into voting for some other schmuck.

    • Darrel says:

      Bigd: “…the IOUs for SS are in teh TRILLIONS of dollars.”>>

      DAR
      According to the FED, in 2008, there were about $829 billion US dollars circulating (most out of the US). They are all IOU’s. It’s not a problem. And they represent just a small fraction of the US “dollars” in existence. Most exist electronically.

      SS has been pay as we go and it has mostly ran surpluses, and we’ve blown (“invested”) it, yes. Largely on boondoggles and a few silly wars. But lot’s of good stuff too. Soon it will not run surpluses. Then we will have to truly go, pay as we go.

      Bigd: We have an UNFUNDED mandate…”>>

      DAR
      Don’t we all. Well what do you do with an unfunded mandate? You fund it, over time, or you reduce the benefit until you can fund it. We’ve fixed it before and we can fix it again. The US transacts something like $11 trillion a day last I checked. We will find a way to take care of the old and sick folks, because it’s important. Maybe someday we, with our mere 5% of the planets population, won’t find it necessary to spend 50% of the whole planet spends on military?

      Bigd: “…the money has been spent.”>>

      DAR
      Most of it has been (and is currently) spent for the purpose it was intended: SS recipients. The surpluses have been spent. When our population levels out this will require some adjustments. It’s all quite workable. Except for adjusting for this, SS can continue indefinitely as long as we have workers.

      Bigd: The only way to honor the debt is to BORROW.>>

      DAR
      No, there are at least two other options. Increase the revenue (it would take a rather minor tweak actually), or reduce benefits. Or both.

      Bigd: SS is in trouble.>>

      DAR
      No, the US is on a unsustainable fiscal trajectory. This happened under Bush. When his Treasury secretary told him this, he fired him and went off to blow several trillion on unfunded wars.

      D.

  5. Big Dog says:

    There is not enough money to pay the obligations. But not to worry, the government can just end payments and say screw you:

    The Supreme Court has established that no one has any legal right to Social Security benefits. Link

    • Darrel says:

      Bigd: “The Supreme Court has established that no one has any legal right to Social Security benefits.”>>

      DAR
      Yes, that’s true.

      But since politicians can hardly bring themselves to even *touch* that “third rail,” how likely are we to see any elected officials actually “end payments?” Not very.

      I just wish they had the balls to tweak and adjust it as necessary. They will.

      D.
      —————-
      “Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a
      tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are [a] few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible
      and they are stupid.”
      — President Dwight D. Eisenhower, 11/8/54

      Try it and see.

  6. Mike Radigan says:

    SS is just one big Ponzi scheme. Maybe the government should get Bernie Madoff to run it.

    • Darrel says:

      MIKE: “SS is just one big Ponzi scheme.”>>

      DAR
      SS is not a Ponzi scheme. Here’s the difference:

      ***
      “There is a superficial analogy between pyramid or Ponzi schemes and pay-as-you-go insurance programs in that in both money from later participants goes to pay the benefits of earlier participants. But that is where the similarity ends. A pay-as-you-go system can be visualized as a simple pipeline, with money from current contributors coming in the front end and money to current beneficiaries paid out the back end. As long as the amount of money coming in the front end of the pipe maintains a rough balance with the money paid out, the system can continue forever. There is no unsustainable progression driving the mechanism of a pay-as-you-go pension system, and so it is not a pyramid or Ponzi scheme.

      If the demographics of the population were stable, then a pay-as-you-go system would not have demographically-driven financing ups and downs, and no thoughtful person would be tempted to compare it to a Ponzi arrangement. However, since population demographics tend to rise and fall, the balance in pay-as-you-go systems tends to rise and fall as well. This vulnerability to demographic ups and downs is one of the problems with pay-as-you-go financing. But this problem has nothing to do with Ponzi schemes or any other fraudulent form of financing; it is simply the nature of pay-as-you-go systems.[94]”

      Link.

      • Mike Radigan says:

        Darrel, you take every tongue-in-cheek comment too seriously. Have a sense of humor. I guess I’ll have to more careful with this too and add a wink.

      • Darrel says:

        The Bernie Madoff bit is of course tongue in cheek. The Ponzi scheme claim is an anti-SS canard going back to at least Milton Friedman in the 1950’s.

  7. Big Dog says:

    And even that is often too much….

  8. oilyryzer says:

    Darrel, your Kool-aid is getting warm. How about a refill?