We’re Not Done Yet

King Hussein is waffling, HHC jester Sebelius is making comments she has to walk back, and the appearance of disarray and smell of failure is distinct. Do not let your guard down– the fight is not over, indeed, like the Hydra, when you cut off one head, two more take its place. Now, like a possum playing dead, they have floated the trial balloon of “Co- ops”- instead of the government single payer plan that has had people up in arms.

The thing is, there is just sooooooo much to dislike in this FUBAR of a bill, that even if single payer option was out (it isn’t), the “death panel” question is still a valid one, as Andrew McCarthy points out in a National Review Online posting:

In suggesting it’s hyperbole to say death panels are — or were — in the bill, the editors engage in a little hysteria of their own, describing the function of such panels as “deciding whose life has sufficient value to be saved.” But few people worried about death panels think the process will be anything so crude. It will be what Mark Steyn described in his column this weekend: the bureaucrats won’t pull the plug on you; they will gradually restrict your access to various forms of treatment while you wither away prematurely. Maybe if Palin had called them “Dying on the Vine Panels” our opinion elites would have been more understanding — though I doubt it, Palin derangement syndrome having proved itself more infectious than Bush derangement syndrome.

corner.nationalreview.com

Yea, you see, that is the problem here, it is not the message, but the messenger that gets mocked. You can’t mock the message, because it is true in an omissive sense- so if you don’t like the message, but cannot effectively refute it, you minimize and mock the person who said it.

In British Columbia, a part of Canada, and a part of the Vaunted Canadian Healthcare system, they have cut “elective” surgeries by at least 15% for the rest of this year, because they haven’t the money to pay for them. That would mean that Barry’s granny wouldn’t get her hip replacement, because she wouldn’t qualify for anything but the pain pills if she lived there.

This is called rationing, people- when you can’t get the surgery you want, when you want it, then a form of rationing exists, no matter how you wish to parse the words, the facts are plain. The whole system becomes, in effect, a “death panel”, simply by denying the care that is needed. 

Many people have touted the number 46 million people who do not have health insurance, but these same people are adding in the illegal aliens (12- 20 million), and young people who are healthy and opt out of health insurance because they want to spend their money doing other things, like paying bills, or having fun. That is a part of living in the U.S.- you have the choice to do this.

At least for now-if Hussein has his way, call it single payer, or Co-op, or whatever you wish, that choice will be smaller, and our participation will be compulsory. I do not know about you, but I hate compulsory things- oh, some things I know are “for the public good”, such as no racing in the school zones, or driving on the sidewalks- you know, things like that. But I bridle at the thought that my government has the gall to think that it knows better than I what is good and proper for me.

This government thinking has extended to Cap and Trade, and every other bill they have been trying to pass before we the people can read it, and that is not right. Just by trying to fool us, these alleged representatives have become traitors, plain and simple.

Heck, one, Rep. Massa, of New York, has stated plainly that he will go against the wishes of his constituents and vote the way that he sees fit. Rather arrogant of him, and if I was one of his constituents, I would want a one- on- one conference with him and persuade him to see things my way.

Other Dems, like Peter Schiff, say that if single payer option isn’t in the bill, there might be a hundred reps who would not vote for it- good. Don’t vote for it.

A bad bill should die an ugly death- that’s right and proper.

After that is dead and buried, then perhaps we can actually get something substantial and positive done.

Sarah Palin, in her own way, took the talking points away from Hussein, and did this country a service- for that, we (all of us, Republicans AND Democrats) should thank her. Her words might have been incendiary, but in essence they were spot on.

Hussein got FaceBook’d.
Blake

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18 Responses to “We’re Not Done Yet”

  1. Mike Radigan says:

    Blake

    In British Columbia, a part of Canada, and a part of the Vaunted Canadian Healthcare system, they have cut “elective” surgeries by at least 15% for the rest of this year, because they haven’t the money to pay for them.

    If you Google British Columbia healthcare cuts you get many articles confirming this. Here’s just one referencing capping and reducing MRI scans and elective surgeries:

    http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090715/BC_health_care_cuts_090715/20090716?hub=BritishColumbiaHome

  2. Blake says:

    And this is what Palin meant by death panels- the “sin” of omission- sorry, but we can’t afford to treat your mother, or father- maybe next year. By then you are out of luck and how much has this vaunted “healthcare” done for you?

  3. Mike Radigan says:

    More on the Canadian system from their incoming medical association president (it’s imploding):

    http://www.mofopolitics.com/2009/08/17/cma-president-dr-anne-doig-the-system-is-imploding-more-precarious-than-perhaps-canadians-realize/

    • Darrel says:

      Don’t suppose you noticed that your “mofopolitics” cite doesn’t provide a link to check their claim. That’s okay, the quote is all over the looney right sites but no one else provides a link, or context, either.

      Big surprise.

      You can read a nice summary of the actual changes/improvements the CMA plans to make here (gasp, they want to improve it? It must not be perfect!):

      http://www.cma.ca/index.cfm/ci_id/10043356/la_id/1.htm

      Let me know if you find ANYTHING in there regarding looking to the US as an example, in any way, for any thing (they do mention Europe).

      LOL.

      There’s a reason for that btw.

      D.

      • Blake says:

        Most of the “changes” Canada wants to make are in the area of rationing, because costs have gone up. in addition, they want to improve their access to medicines, as many plans do not include access to prescription drugs.
        Personally they need to change a heart attack as a “necessary surgery”, rather than “elective”.
        Their brains have permafrost.

      • Mike Radigan says:

        This link is absolutely correct as I watched this interview last night.

        http://looktruenorth.com/limited-government/health-care/9377-canadacare-is-imploding-part-ii.html

        15% of Canadians do NOT even have a primary care physician. Canada is 26th out of 28 developed countries for doctors per population. One million waiting for surgeries and another million waiting for specialists.

        • Blake says:

          Yea- You have to excuse Darrel- he reflexively defends Canada because he lived there for so long- old habits die hard, eh?

        • Darrel says:

          MIKE:
          This link is absolutely correct as I watched this interview last night.>>

          DAR
          Your quote is all over the place, on rightwing sites, as I said. But none of them (including the two new ones at your link), refer to a verifiable source. It’s just rightwingers passing the same junk around with each other.

          And now you are impressed that a guest went on Bill ‘O and simply referred to this again?

          Let’s pretend it’s true. It may be. I would like to read the article in question and see some context. But no one has that apparently.
          I don’t find it all that implausible that an incoming bureaucrat would say there are problems, even a prediction of “implosion,” in order to get more money for their department. That’s what they do. More power to her.
          Compared with the US condition in this area, the US system “imploded” years ago. I say this because we have several states where 1/4th of the population has no insurance at all. Ticking time bombs. Imagine if 1/4 of the people on the road had no insurance. We would never tolerate that.

          MIKE:
          15% of Canadians do NOT even have a primary care physician.>>

          DAR
          Explain why that matters. Young people, healthy people, people who live waaaay out in the bushes (think Alaska), some people don’t have, or don’t choose to have a personal, primary care physician. Big whoop. But guess what? If they do get sick, and they are poor, they can go to a doctor, any doctor (they’re all in network), and they will be cared for just like everyone else. That’s the way they do it in Canada. And they do it better, for less money, and they cover everyone.

          And your claim is spin anyway. Observe:

          “…based on 2003 data from the Canadian Community Health Survey,[36] an estimated 1.2 million (5%) of Canadians report that they do not have a regular doctor because they “cannot find” one, and just over twice that number report they do not have one because they “haven’t looked.”

          LINK

          As I suspected.

          MIKE:
          Canada is 26th out of 28 developed countries for doctors per population.>>

          DAR
          Another unsourced claim you heard on the Tee Vee. Show why this matters. Canada would like to have more doctors, so would the US. Especially in rural areas. What would you recommend? Force doctors to move into unpopulated areas?

          MIKE:
          One million waiting for surgeries and another million waiting for specialists.>>

          DAR
          A completely meaningless claim (again unsourced) considering it does not include the necessary context of:

          a) how long they have been waiting
          b) how fast they cycle through

          Perhaps you should be a little more skeptical of your propaganda before you pass it along?

          D.

        • Blake says:

          Perhaps, Darrel, you should be less defensive of the in defensible here- Those stats Mike refers to are valid.
          Now. if you have no primary physician, you cant get into line for surgeries, or diagnostics, and it is sometimes a three year wait to get one, which is no biggie if you are young, and in good health. If not, you’re screwed. If you have to have life- saving surgery, say bye bye.

        • Mike Radigan says:

          Darrel

          But none of them (including the two new ones at your link), refer to a verifiable source.

          Darrel, Dr Day, the guest whose interview I watched, is past president of the Canadian Medical Association. Those are his figures regarding waiting lines. How much more verifiable do you want?

        • Blake says:

          Darrel likes to say that WE cherry pick, but he’s the champ in that regard. Him and Hussein are BFFs

        • Darrel says:

          MIKE: Darrel, Dr Day,… is past president of the Canadian Medical Association. Those are his figures regarding waiting lines.>>

          DAR
          Did you not understand my point that mentioning how many people are on a line does not tell you how fast the line is moving?

          As I have said before, Canada has some longer waits for some procedures, in some areas (each province is different). I have never argued that Canada has the best health care in the world. I don’t know if they would even be in the top ten. But Canada’s system is not being considered for the US.
          Presumably all of this lying about and bashing of the Canadian system from the right is going on because they wish to compare the US to Canada’s. That’s stupid because Canada’s system, with all of it’s warts, wins. As I have documented over and over with extensive citation (and will gladly post again), it gets better results, has higher satisfaction rates, covers everyone and does so for much less cost. That’s better. That’s a win.

          Now, you wish to make the point that Canada doesn’t have enough doctors. Then you ignore my question about what should be done about this.

          I pretty much agree with Dr. Day. Regarding rationing, he gave a lecture last year and made this point:

          “Countries like Switzerland, Austria, France, Belgium, Germany and others do not ration or deny access in the Canadian manner.”

          Read the context at my link. In saying this he was recommending Canada look to *these* countries to modify the Canadian system and improve wait times. These countries have medical systems that are FAR MORE socialized than Canada’s. (note: Canada’s system has socialized insurance and private doctors.)

          Notice he didn’t mention the US. Notice he does not support changing the Canadian system to the US’s. Why? Because that would be ridiculous. Laughable. In the US system, if you need surgery or have a chronic condition that needs treatment and don’t have insurance, or the money, you don’t get put on a waiting list, you go home and wait to die.

          This happens to about 18,000 people a year. It’s a national disgrace, and no country looks to such a system as a model to copy. Especially Canada.

          When I was in Canada for the last month I asked many people, about a dozen, specifically, if they had “experienced, or knew of anyone first hand who had ever experienced what they would consider an unreasonable wait time for an important surgery or medical procedure.”

          These were adults, aged 40-70, with children. All of these people, representing hundreds of concurrent years lived in Canada, said no, except for one.

          Now isn’t that curious? If this was a such a rampant problem, you would think these people would know of first hand examples.

          I personally know of lots of US disaster cases. My brother and his wife went bankrupt when his insurance company went bankrupt and they got stuck with a large bill.

          And this fellow’s example I mentioned above? He knew of someone who had been diagnosed with a heart condition and got in line for surgery. It was not deemed serious enough to be done immediately. He said the fellow was very worried during this time. I understand. The end result? This man received his surgery and all was well. His fears were misplaced.

          And this was his best, and only, example. All the rest didn’t know of any.

          D.

  4. Blake says:

    Actually, Dr. Day did mention that more for- profit medical centers were springing up simply because the Canadian model couldn’t keep up with demand- one of the reasons people come to the US for care. The other is that our care, especially in terminal diseases, is the best in the world. As someone who has had cancer, I know that.
    Access to cutting edge machines can only come with money and Obummer has none.

  5. Mike Radigan says:

    Wingnut, wingnut, wingnut. Oops, I thought I was Adam responding to BigDog.

    Darrel, at least you present an argument for your stance and I respect you for that. I just happen to disagree. Every country has its own set of problems unique to its demographic. One size does not fit all.

    I have relatives living in both Germany and Sweden and friends living in Italy. They all state that things are rapidly changing there as costs are starting to skyrocket. They think their systems will have to undergo fairly large changes to rein in these costs. Stay tuned.

    As far as the U.S. is concerned I think Obama’s plan will fail. First I do not think he can get it passed even with the Dems in charge. But more importantly I think any plan that foregoes private competition will fail in the long run. Lack of incentive to become doctors, to develop new drugs, and develop new procedures and medical devices will result in fewer of these. Also, the costs of his plan will be staggering monetarily. Even Warren Buffet, who was a big Obama supporter, just stated debt as a percentage of GNP is getting out of hand and cannot continue. Also, it’s been leaked that the government on Tuesday will up its debt forecast another two trillion. Where’s it going to come from?

  6. Blake says:

    It will fail as Social Security is failing- you cannot dump 15-20 million (I do not count Illegal aliens) new people on a system without having a corresponding increase in Doctors, or you swamp the system. And who will have the financial incentive to be a doctor if your pay is capped? It costs A LOT to become a doctor. Why bother large risks and loans if there is no large payback at the other end?

    That was the fault of SS- many seniors could collect after only putting in a couple of years worth of money, so we began in negative territory. It might nor have stayed there if dishonest pols of both sides hadn’t used the SS as their own pork barrel for anything they wanted.

  7. Mike Radigan says:

    Here’s the leaked forecast increase:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125089132299650283.html

    • Blake says:

      Another “pledge” broken, and still people like automaton Adam will not see- what CAN you do with such ignorance?
      We shall pray for him or over him- his choice.