The Definition Of Insanity

Since the Healthscare Bill is oozing its way out of committee at the predictable, snail- like rate, the Resident is trying to give a boost to the Cap and Rob energy policy he’s been pimping relentlessly- it is his newest girl, and he really wants you to like her- in the biblical sense. It’s hard being a pimp in Washington these days, when your girls are so fugly.

The Commerce Department is scheduled to release estimates Thursday of economic growth for the third quarter of 2009, and for the first time in a year, forecasters say, the economy has expanded.

But job losses continue to plague the country, although not nearly as much as when Obama took office. That has left an opening for Republican critics, who have said that rising unemployment is evidence that the president’s economic policies are not working.

“We’ve seen a $4 trillion budget — $787 billion stimulus, $700 billion financial bailouts, health care, cap and trade [climate change legislation]. Everything seems to be more government, big government,” said  Rep. Connie Mack (R-Fla.).

While many economists say the stimulus money has helped stabilize the economy, most voters think otherwise, according to the latest Washington Post-ABC News poll. It found that 22 percent of Americans think the package has made the economy worse, while 35 percent say it has had no effect.

washingtonpost.com

Yeah- that is a problem, as it has been shown with the studies done on the “green jobs” created in Spain, that 2.2 jobs are lost for every “green job” created. We are walking backwards, people- this is called negative growth, and is not good. 

Several things could be done that are not, and one of the most important would be the immediate construction of nuclear plants for residential and commercial energy needs, but there are no permits being issued- one of the bigger miscues of this administration, and there have been a bunch. Another was to withdraw a permit for coal mining in West Virginia, after the permit had been okayed, throwing several hundred people in a rural area with one employer out of work.

Now, that’s the way Liberals handle things- stir the pot with a big FUBAR stick.

Standing on the edge of a large solar-power plant here, Obama urged the Senate to pass a measure that caps carbon emissions and to set aside arguments that it would harm the economy and cost jobs.

“The closer we get to this new energy future, the harder the opposition is going to fight, the more we’re going to hear from special interests and lobbyists in Washington whose interests are contrary to the interests of the American people,” Obama said.

As he spoke to Florida Power & Light employees, the sun was glinting off acres of the utility’s solar panels behind him. “It’s a debate between looking backwards and looking forward,” the president said.

latimes.com

Yep, the sun glints off of acres of solar panels that will most certainly be sucked up by a tornado, or shattered to bits by hail- Oh, nobody brought up the fact that there are more tornados and thunderstorms in Florida than anywhere else? And then there’s the wildfires, oh- and let us not forget the hurricanes, all of which will harm these panels- but there will be plenty of work replacing them several times a year, all while they are off- line, and not producing electricity. In other words, while they are nothing more than useless propaganda images.

And in other areas, the Resident is throwing money at the situation, so utility companies can install big brother “smart grid” meters that can dictate when you can use a machine in your own home.

Pepco, with 750,000 residential and business customers in Maryland and the District, will receive $168 million, mostly to subsidize the installation of smart meters. The devices allow the utility to turn off the air conditioner in a customer’s home, or turn on the dishwasher when energy is cheapest.

Baltimore Gas and Electric received $200 million, which it will match with $251 million in private money to install smart meters for its 1.1 million customers, the White House said.       [emphasis mine]

washingtonpost.com

Don’t you just love that the government can dictate when you do something in your own home? Such freedom- this is typical liberal vomitus- “we know you better than you know you- and we know better how you should live”. What unmitigated arrogance on their part.  If I want to be cool, I will be cool- and if I have to fire up a gasoline generator to do so, I will, and throw some carbon monoxide into the air doing so. Or you can keep your hands off my meter and my A/C.  Your choice, EPA-

As long as I can pay for it, it’s noone’s business but my own, and I will treat it as such-

And you had better stay out of my way.
Blake

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83 Responses to “The Definition Of Insanity”

  1. Big Dog says:

    They have to keep pushing to get things done now because next year is an election year and they do not want this hanging over their heads. They are also in for some trouble when the inflation rate skyrockets.

    I am with you, if I want my house cool then I will have it cool. I pay the bill and i should decide when the AC igets to run and when to do my dishes.

    If they interfere with what I want to do then I will have to unhook their gizmo.

  2. Randy says:

    Blake,

    You just made most of that up.

    Solar panels will not have to be replaced several times a year. Hail? Whatever. Hurricanes? Maybe, but certainly it will cost less than replacing oil rigs that hurricanes damage, and it won’t happen several times a year. Not even once a year. Utility companies (not the government) being able to turn on and off specific appliances to be more cost effective and efficient for the grid? Only if you want them to be able to. You would have to buy your own smart appliances for that to be feasible, and you can simply not buy the smart appliances.

    • Darrel says:

      Solar panels typically have 20 or 25 year warranties. This is no doubt because people are “replacing them several times a year.”

      Looks like someone is trying to turn the stupid up even higher.

      RANDY: “you can simply not buy the smart appliances.”>>

      DAR
      Better yet, buy the smart appliances (they’ll probably all be smart some day), and then program them to be dumb (run the dryer at two in the afternoon). That is, program them to do the opposite of what those smart liberals may want. That’s what Blake should do.

      That way we can send even more money over seas to Blake’s favorite friends.

      Forget solar panels, fire up that generator! This makes Abdul, Mohammad and Osama very very happy.

      The future, as usual, is a conservative nightmare. So what’s new?

      D.

      • Blake says:

        We wouldn’t make the ragheads happy if we would drill off of our coasts, Dar- but that would make sense, and you libs can’t have THAT, can you? Nope- you all have to do the stupid thing-“Let’s substitute unproven technology for that which has served us all these years quite well- so what if our economy slips down to Ugandan levels? We don’t care- we are libs and we are stupid.”

      • Blake says:

        You are correct in that it is proven that it can work- what is not proven is how well it stands up to the test of the elements, not to mention the laying of transmission lines through sensitive ecological areas.
        As I have said before, (and this seems to be forgotten) is that while I have no objection to alternative tech- it IS NOT up and running sufficiently to take the place of fossil fuels now, so WHY ARE WE NOT DRILLING in our own backyard?
        To do anything else is stupid.
        In Brazil, the oil formation they have found off of the coast might rival Saudi Arabia, and there are indications that off of California’s coast is a similar formation.
        To not drill there is blatant stupidity, even as we work out the problems of alternative energies.
        There is no sense in crippling our economy while we change over- can we at least agree on that? Or are you like Carol Browner, who is the head of the EPA, who has said that our economy must shrink, so the economies of third world countries can catch up.
        How stupid is that statement?

        • Randy says:

          Solar power is up and running. As well as wind power it can seriously limit the need to drill all over the place for more oil. Understand this: With a smart grid we can hit the ground running with all of these sources of renewable energy by integrating them with the traditional sources we already have. As Americans we can be on the forefront of this revolutionary innovation. If we don’t do it Western Europe will (and is) do it and we will be stuck looking to them to use their innovations. No one is trying to stop drilling for oil, only trying to limit the need to do it so aggressively. We will always be dependent on fossil fuels to some extent.

          This technology is already being implemented because it is ready for prime time. Sure, there will be hiccups, as there are with any major infrastructure project, but we need to get the ball rolling faster on this before the U.S. is left behind the rest of the world yet again.

          • Big Dog says:

            No one is trying to stop drilling for oil? Have you paid attention to Congress? The Dems were all for it before the election but then imposed the bans after. I think alternative energy is a good idea but we still need the oil until it is up and productive. Remember, Obama told us his energy policies would necessarily cause prices to skyrocket. We should be aggressively drilling for oil and putting any excess in reserve so that we have plenty until such a time comes that we do not need it any longer.

            • Randy says:

              I am sure you will have an easy time showing us all where Obama said his energy policies would necessarily cause energy prices to “skyrocket”. And no. No one said we should stop drilling for oil. And if you think alternative energy is such a good idea, why do you oppose the government offering incentives to better utilize such alternative energy?

            • Blake says:

              If this was true, the EPA would not have revoked the permits for coal mines in W. Virginia, thus throwing a whole town out of work. And this was after the permit had already been issued.
              Also, Hussein said that under Cap and Rob, “energy prices would necessarily skyrocket”,- a fact you can google on youtube, using Obama/energy as your search- I get soooooooo tired of doing your homework for you- educate yourself-
              The policy of this admin is to say, “oh no, we are not denying anyone permits for drilling/ building a reactor/ coal plant/ explore for more energy- no, but we will charge you an exorbitant rate, until it is no longer economically viable to do these things.
              In this way, we will “nudge” you into doing as we wish.”
              And I oppose the Chinese manufacturing these turbines, because Hussein said that these manufacturing jobs would stay here in the US- I mean is he the dumbest SOB ever? WE can google him saying these things on youtube- perhaps that is why he wants control of the internet- so he can scrub some of the words that can come back to haunt him.

            • Adam says:

              “I get soooooooo tired of doing your homework for you…”

              This coming from a guy who consistently calls for folks to find data to back up what he is saying instead of actually providing the data himself since he’s the one making the argument.

              “It is a weather fact that Florida has more (if weaker) tornados than any other specific state in our country, Adam- look it up if you wish.”

              Now who’s not doing their homework. I challenge you to find me one single piece of evidence to suggest there are more tornadoes in Florida than any other specific state. Just one piece. You keep insisting it is true, so prove it.

            • Blake says:

              You libbies just want us to spend all our time answering the child’s cry of “Why- Why- why-” uttered ad nauseum, because you believe it freezes us in place.
              Lets face it- if you haven’t the logic to follow a common sense argument, why should we help you?
              You just keep playing your reindeer games.

            • Adam says:

              Here are the steps Blake follows on this site:

              1. Blake makes an argument based on anecdotal evidence of personal opinion.

              2. Somebody asks Blake for evidence to back that argument up.

              3. Blake tells that person they can look it up themselves.

              4. The person looks it up for Blake, proves Blake wrong again.

              5. Blake cries and whines about common sense and logic and accuses the person questioning his facts of acting like a child.

            • Blake says:

              You are soooooo boring, Adam.
              Get a new schtick.

            • Adam says:

              See Blake run. Deflect, deflect. Facts are so bothersome and boring to you.

            • Blake says:

              Here is Adam on this site:
              1. if it is conservative, the opinion must be countered.
              2. ask for evidence- if it is given, dismiss that evidence
              3. ask for yet more evidence
              4. if said evidence isn’t immediately forthcoming, cry like a baby.
              5. accuse Blake of causing Adam’s distress
              6. Call Blake or BD a bigot, or racist.7. Repeat as needed.

            • Adam says:

              Regarding #1: Not true. I agree with conservatives on many issues. I just rarely agree with the fact free, unsubstantiated prattle you pass off here.

              Regarding #2, #3, #4: Sorry if I find your lack of evidence unconvincing. You routinely cite yourself as an authority based on anecdotal evidence. That is about the weakest kind of argument there is.

              Regarding #5: You cause me no distress. I’m here because I’m friends with Big Dog and I enjoy arguing politics online. The truth is we had much better, more intelligent conversations here before you started writing.

              Regarding #6: I’m going to call a person a racist or a bigot when I see them being one. You can pretend that I have no basis for this or it’s a knee jerk reaction but you’re just in denial.

            • Blake says:

              On the contrary- you have called us both those names with no reason whatsoever- and proving in doing so how truly intellectually bankrupt you liberals are.
              I have never- I repeat never seen you agree with ANY conservative position at all- not on anything I have read that you wrote- period.
              And when I cite my experiences, they ARE my experiences, and they are true- the fact that my conclusions, based on first- hand experience is anathema to your philosophy disturbs me not at all.
              And you are free to argue against my opinions- I have not banned you, even though we have at times been contentious- that is your opinion, and you are welcome to it. That is what freedom of speech is all about- it is really too bad that you liberals do not believe in it.

            • Adam says:

              I guess it just depends on what you consider conservative and liberal since you seem to mark those down the middle in a good versus evil battle. That is your first big problem. You treat the other side not as folks who disagree on policy or the direction of the country, but as a group of people who want to destroy this country and your way of life. That kind of junior league partisan bull crap tends to blur your reality of politics in this country and your view of my political ideals.

              Your experiences matter of course, as do my own, they just aren’t strong evidence for most of your positions. Take for example the other day when you said illegals were spreading E. Coli. What is your evidence? A couple of instances when with your build crew and 2nd hand accounts from a friend of yours. No expert studies. No scientific opinion. Just your experience. That’s all, nothing else. Yet you argued that point into the ground.

              Here we are again today watching you argue about whether or not weather will affect these solar panels. Do you cite info about the design of panels? No. What about examples of past damage to similar facilities? No. What did you cite? Your experience with bad weather and eventually your distrust of school systems to raise people intelligent enough to engineer correctly. This is all you ever have and you pass it off as reasoned, intelligent debate and you question the brains of anybody who says otherwise.

              Anecdotes in the form you consistently use do not count as substantial evidence. Can’t you see that? That is why I have pretty much disagreed with you from the first sentence you ever wrote on this blog.

            • Blake says:

              Blake says:
              Monday Nov 2nd, 2009 at 07:48
              My anecdotal evidence I use happened, even if a scientist wasn’t glued to my side making observations- and the fact that I have seen it done, means that you can reasonably extrapolate this same thing in other venues, such as agriculture. The fact that it is FECAL E. Coli, means that if there is no feedlot nearby, then the other options for contamination begin to narrow considerably, and my scenario becomes much more plausible.
              And there is a faction of your party, or whatever you call it, the far- left, who truly DO want to see this country destroyed- the Marxists and Socialists- and them I oppose and we have no common ground here- they are a clear and present danger to my country, and they are my enemies- period.
              Others may have distasteful positions, but I can argue mine, and that is freedom of speech for both sides- just remember Thomas Jefferson’s words-
              ” All that is needed for tyranny to triumph, is for good men to do nothing.”

              Reply

            • Adam says:

              “…and the fact that I have seen it done, means that you can reasonably extrapolate this same thing in other venues, such as agriculture.”

              You have no logical basis for extrapolating your anecdotal evidence.

              The expression anecdotal evidence has two distinct meanings.

              (1) Evidence in the form of an anecdote or hearsay is called anecdotal if there is doubt about its veracity; the evidence itself is considered untrustworthy.

              (2) Evidence, which may itself be true and verifiable, used to deduce a conclusion which does not follow from it, usually by generalizing from an insufficient amount of evidence. For example “my grandfather smoked like a chimney and died healthy in a car crash at the age of 99” does not disprove the proposition that “smoking markedly increases the probability of cancer and heart disease at a relatively early age”. In this case, the evidence may itself be true, but does not warrant the conclusion.

              In both cases the conclusion is unreliable; it may not be untrue, but it doesn’t follow from the “evidence”.

              As far as I know those are not Jefferson’s words.

            • Darrel says:

              BLK: “just remember Thomas Jefferson’s words-
              ” All that is needed for tyranny to triumph, is for good men to do nothing.”>>

              ADM: “As far as I know those are not Jefferson’s words.”>>

              DAR
              They’re not. This is usually attributed to Edmund Burke, (it hangs in the main hallway of the Edmund Burke school in Washington) but this appears to be apocryphal. A lot of times it is attributed to Nietzsche. It certainly was NOT Jefferson.

              D.
              ——————
              “… shake off all the fears of servile prejudices under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a god because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.”
              –Thomas Jefferson, letter to nephew Peter Carr, August 10, 1787. From Adrienne Koch, ed., The American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society, New York: George Braziller, 1965, pp. 320-321.

            • Big Dog says:

              The exact source of the quote is unknown though usually attributed as stated, to Burke.

              Perhaps something close to the sentiment from Jefferson is:
              “The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.”

              But one of my favorites:
              “When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.”

              Now that was a good Jefferson quote…

            • Adam says:

              I don’t think Jefferson said that one either, strangely enough.

              I don’t know if I’ve seen more quotes misattributed to one man than by folks spreading around Jefferson’s imaginary ideas on government to fit their narrowing political agendas.

              There is one chain letter in particular I’m thinking of that is covered on this site.

              One thing that Jefferson probably did say though:

              “…he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”

            • Blake says:

              “A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have.”
              Thomas Jefferson

            • Adam says:

              “I am going to be misquoted by conservatives to further their political views for the next 200 years.”

              -Thomas Jefferson

            • Big Dog says:

              “I am going to be unquoted but used by liberals to destroy America.”

              -Saul Alinsky

            • Adam says:

              Don’t make me find a fake Jefferson quote showing the founding father’s support for Community Organizing.

            • Big Dog says:

              Go ahead and I will find a fake Obama quote opposing gay marriage.

            • Darrel says:

              ADM: “…he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.” –Jefferson

              DAR
              That’s a very good one. Another variation I am more familiar with:

              “He is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.” –Jefferson

            • Randy says:

              Ok, I looked it up. Your quote is wrong. Obama said “electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket”, and he was specifically speaking about electricity generated by burning coal. Regardless, I’ll give you guys that one.

              As far as manufacturing in China goes, maybe we could build those wind turbines here more competitively if we would have been more on the cutting edge of developing these technologies. We were too busy burning off our natural resources though and insisting that these renewable technologies weren’t realistic enough. Now we are showing up late to the game, and the manufacturing bar has already been set by those who were on the cutting edge.

            • Blake says:

              Randy- they are propellers- it is not proprietary technology, nor is it that difficult- but Hussein has to kowtow to the Chinese, so they get the contract.
              Maybe if we had a Resident with a spine….

            • Randy says:

              Sorry Blake, they are much more than propellers.

            • Blake says:

              The insides of the turbines- the gears and such ( the parts that actually MAKE the energy) ARE manufactured by GE (a conflict of interest, since Jeffery Immelt is an advisor to Nobummer), but the stalk and propellers are what they are, and nothing more- and it is these parts that are manufactured by the Chinese.
              My point is that these props are just as easily manufactured here.
              Wouldn’t that save on the precious “carbon footprint” of shipping them over here?
              Or is it cheaper and better to ship themhalfway around the world?

            • Randy says:

              You can add yourself to the list of “educationally challenged” you were speaking of in an earlier comment. The gears don’t make the electricity, or any energy for that matter.

            • Blake says:

              No, but that part comes from Germany- the POINT BEING that we could do every bit of this here at home, but we do not, and that deprives our citizens of jobs.
              What part of that do you not comprehend? It is like you are deliberately choosing to ignore the point just to pick over minutia irrelevant to the discussion, and you can’t be THAT obtuse, can you?
              If so, YOU become irrelevant to the discussion. Stay on point- the discussion is about jobs staying here in the US, and why Hussein ships these jobs to China.

            • Randy says:

              That wasn’t the point of this post. That was another. The jobs are in China because that is where the manufacturing infrastructure exists. We could start manufacturing here, but it wouldn’t be very effective at all, and we certainly wouldn’t be competitive on a global scale. The federal dollars spent in China do create plenty of great technician jobs here in the U.S. though. We could have had the manufacturing too if some folks weren’t so insistent in the recent past that major investment in renewable energy was such a waste of money and resources.

            • Blake says:

              No, actually it seems the insistence on union labor was the major sticking point on this- if you can’t make it economically viable here, it will go to China, or wherever the cost of labor is cheapest.

            • Blake says:

              And you are right- I am getting my posts mixed up.

            • Blake says:

              And why no nuclear? That is a stupid thing. Hey- if France can do it, we can do it better- but we are not doing it at all, and that defies common sense.

    • Blake says:

      No Randy, I did not “make most of that up”, whatever you think” that” is- Florida IS the tornado capital of the US, and has plenty of thunderstorms that produce dry lightning and wildfires- and as for hurricanes, they are what they are.
      As for the utility being able to turn off your A/C? I just quoted the article- if it is wrong, then the quote is wrong, but I will bet the Washington Post has it right.
      This is just like the GPS in everyone’s cell phones- right now it is crude but workable- also intrusive.

      • Randy says:

        You need to cite the article, not just the Washington Post website in general. The paragraphs you did cut and paste aren’t wrong, just incomplete. A smart meter can’t just plug into your house and figure out which appliance is plugged into which outlet. The appliance needs to be able to communicate bidirectionally with the utility supplying the power. It has to be a “smart” appliance.

        The thing is Blake, we’ve been over this before. It’s been a while, but this is not new information to you. Yet, you continue to repeat this crap because you want it so bad to be some government control conspiracy. It’s not.

        Also, Darrel is correct. All appliances will probably be “smart” someday. Thats just technology doing what technology does. These smart appliances are being designed to be programmable. You have the option of programming the appliance to automatically be more efficient and cost effective. Or not.

        Oh, and the GPS in your cell phone? You can turn that off too. It says how in the user manual.

        • Blake says:

          Perhaps they cannot now cut off your A/C specifically, but they CAN cut your power.

        • Blake says:

          Yes, you can yank your sim card- I know that- but with this government it is not the paranoia that is bad- it is INSUFFICIENT paranoia that will do you in.
          I know you all get these tingles up your leg about the fact that there has been affirmative action at the highest levels, but keep in mind that it still doesn’t mean that he is competent at this level.
          As far as smart tech, once again, it is not whether it can be done, as much as whether it SHOULD be done.
          Personally, if you cannot understand an on/ off control, you should be wearing a “special” helmet and kept from sharp things.

        • Randy says:

          Utilities have had the technology to shut off your power for years. Since the inception of the grid as a matter of fact. On your cell phone, you don’t need to yank your sim card to turn off the GPS. In fact, on some phones that might not even work. Depending on the model, it’s probably in the user settings.

          You know, perhaps it isn’t me that needs a better understanding of on/off control.

        • Blake says:

          Utilities have not had the power to remotely shut your power off until the smart meters-
          And yanking the sim card works- especially when you deprive it of energy- you know, the ultimate on/ off- pull the battery.

        • Randy says:

          Or Blake, you can simply disable the GPS and you can still use your cell phone. I guarantee your user manual tells you how to do it. If you can’t figure that out…Google it. You don’t need to get all crazy and start ripping memory cards and batteries out.

    • Blake says:

      Have you been in a hailstorm? Seen what it does to a car? You all think solar panels will withstand that? Or even an EF1 tornado?
      How many people have gone through a Hurricane? I have survived many, and I know better than many of you just how bad it can get, especially on the flats of Florida, where there is nothing between a hurricane and the solar panels it will scatter over five counties,
      Dar- it really doesn’t matter what warranty a panel has if they cannot FIND it.
      I see no effort made to come up with a solution to this problem.
      Perhaps this is the “created or saved” jobs Hussein keeps prattling on about.

      • Darrel says:

        BLK: “Have you been in a hailstorm? Seen what it does to a car? You all think solar panels will withstand that?”>>

        DAR
        Are you also recommending people don’t install skylights? They represent a similar (but acceptable) risk from hail storms. We have several hailstorms a year around here, usually minor, I’ve never had damage. I installed skylights in a house almost twenty years ago. They have been thorough many hailstorms. Makes quite a racket. Zero problems.

        I have a friend down the road who has about $20k worth of solar panels which are wired to a second set of green outlets in his house. His had them at least ten years. No problems. I haven’t invested in solar electric much because it is not yet cost effective (solar water heating is but we don’t use much hot water).

        Will spend $7k in the coming weeks on replacing 16 aluminum windows installed in 1963.

        Hurricanes represent a risk for all sorts of items of home property. You prepare, you insure, if you want to go nuts about it I guess you could take down and store them away in some cases. I have four 15 watt panels on my roof I could unplug and have stored in minutes.

        BLK: “I see no effort made to come up with a solution to this problem.”>>

        DAR
        It’s not a problem, unless skylights (and having a roof) are “a problem.”

        D.

        • Blake says:

          It is not the home version of solar that concerns me, but these vast farms of panels they have in florida- do you not read for comprehension?
          Granted, the hail could still do a number on the home versions, and skylights for that matter- that is why I do not have skylights- I have seen what a hailstorm can do to them.
          In Florida, where there will be hurricanes, having those panels seems to me to be stupidity.
          I am sure you have a different opinion, but that is mine.

        • Randy says:

          Why do you think they are so vulnerable to hail Blake?

        • Big Dog says:

          7k for windows? They saw you coming…

        • Darrel says:

          Bigd: “7k for windows? They saw you coming…”>>

          DAR
          Actually, because of the $1,500 tax credit (thanks for helping out there) my final total cost, including tax, will be $5,324. So $332 per window, installed, warranted against everything for the life of the building, their top of ‘o the line window. Is that really so bad? I found lots of people online paying twice and 3x that per window.

          I got them down from $12,900. Window salesman certainly see some people coming.

          D.

        • Blake says:

          I have seen what real hail can do to virtually anything this side of concrete, Randy, and I know these panels are not made from that,

        • Blake says:

          Wow, 7k for your windows? What did they have to contend with here in terms of retrofit?
          You have brick, stone, or wood surrounds on your windows?
          Depending on what you had, I could have done that for 5.5k- its what I do.

  3. Adam says:

    I for one want to know what measurement you are using to say it is a “fact that there are more tornadoes and thunderstorms in Florida than anywhere else” or that Florida is the “tornado capital of the US.” Most thunderstorms? Yes, indeed. Most tornadoes? Not so much.

    Furthermore, it’s the height of arrogance to presume you know more about developing a solar farm in Florida than those actually developing it. You pretend that these engineers aren’t smart enough to consider weather in the development? Get real.

    This is like the “turtle tunnel” where you presumed to see failure points in a project that were “common sense” to you all the while ignoring the documented success of such tunnel systems in other regions.

    This garbage is becoming all too common for you. You form an uneducated, unsubstantiated opinion on a subject you clearly know very little about and you work hard to ignore all evidence contrary to your position. All this time you’re busy using it to promote your view that liberals are pretty much the cause of everything wrong in this country. It’s sad, really.

    • Big Dog says:

      Blake never said he is against any of the alternative power sources. He wants us to keep drilling for oil while we improve them. That is the sane thing to do.

      And why no nuclear?

    • Blake says:

      It is a weather fact that Florida has more (if weaker) tornados than any other specific state in our country, Adam- look it up if you wish. This stems from the fact that they have more thunderstorms than anywhere else, due to the Gulf of Mexico on one side and the Atlantic on the other- as for my “height of arrogance” here, not so- I merely have stated that I fear that these solar panels will be less secure here than other places, due to Hail, tornados, Hurricanes, and the occasional lightning- produced wildfire.
      I did not factor in the danger from liberals, contrary to your ill formed opinion, but you are correct- that danger is real.
      Also, are these “engineers” the same type of people who believe in “Global Warming?” If so, I question their intelligence.

      • Adam says:

        You’re still wrong about tornadoes. I have already looked it up. Why would I argue with you about it if I didn’t have the facts? That’s your style, not mine.

        Thunderstorms? Yes. Hurricanes? Certainly. Tornadoes? Higher than many states, but not the “tornado capital” by any means. Give me data proving otherwise if you doubt me.

        This is not to say your point, while not entirely based in fact as you claim, is invalid. On one hand, major thunderstorms, hail, hurricanes and higher than average amounts of tornadoes are a concern. On the other hand, you still presume to know more about engineering a solar energy facility than the engineers engineering it. Why do you do that?

        Don’t try to deflect into global warming denial either because how these engineers feel about global warming has no bearing on what they know about wind loading and impact damage.

        Again I bring up the “turtle tunnel” where you cannot wrap your head around the fact that folks building these things know a thing or two about the work. Your concerns seem reasonable on face value but under closer inspection they just reveal you to be speaking without any considerable authority on the subject.

        • Blake says:

          I do not purport to know more about how to make a solar energy complex WORK- but I will bet I have more experience in Hurricanes than they do, and I know that one will tear the snot out of that bank of panels. You, Mr. Delaware, do not have first- hand knowledge of what a hurricane can do, discovery channel not withstanding.
          It is not (and once again I have to quote the comedian Ron White) THAT the wind is blowin’- it is WHAT the wind is blowin'”- pieces of other buildings, roofs, and loose detritus can make for quite an impact.
          And I have seen hail the size of baseballs- that WILL harm these panels- guaranteed, when they are at terminal velocity.

        • Adam says:

          “…but I will bet I have more experience in Hurricanes than they do…”

          And the arrogance continues. You base this on what?

          “You, Mr. Delaware, do not have first- hand knowledge…”

          What does my lack of knowledge of hurricanes have to do with you presuming to know more about building a solar facility in Florida than the engineers building it? Don’t attack me just because I’m pointing out you don’t know the first thing about what these engineers have considered when developing this project.

      • Adam says:

        Actually, since Randy actually said it better upon first reading your post: You just made most of that up.

        • Blake says:

          No, actually I did not- you are just lazy and do not wish to do your own research, because it might bite you in the butt.

    • Blake says:

      Ok- you are correct- Florida is #4 on the list- my bad- still, that is a lot, and probably doesn’t include waterspouts-
      http://www.spc.noaa.gov/archive/tornadoes/st-trank.html

      • Adam says:

        But still I concede your point that the weather overall is worse in Florida than most places. This was nitpicking on my part because of your insistence. My point is still about you presuming to know more about developing in this region than the engineers, as if the engineers are going to be like “OK, done with our billion dollar facility. Hey, what is that? Oh no! The weather! It’s bad! We never considered the weather! OH THE HUMANITY!”

        • Blake says:

          My point is that I have personally seen the weather do many things to structural things that man has made, and “certified” to be impervious to the elements, only to have them eat their words, time and again.
          It is part of the hubris of man, and that is a factor you cannot discount.

        • Adam says:

          Engineers design these solar panels to withstand high impact. The facility in Florida has designed their fields to wind loading code because of hurricanes. They aren’t stupid. Are they going to be protected from every kind of weather extreme? No. Is there a source of power in the US that is completely impervious to adverse weather conditions? No. We see the impact on offshore drilling due to hurricanes every few years. I just don’t see your point.

    • Blake says:

      Liberals are pretty much the reason we have gone downhill as a nation, all the way from hijacking our public school system to indoctrinate our children through the “elite” tenured socialistic universities where the students are radicalized, to the unions, who parrot the party line like the brownshirts they are.
      And yes, you are correct- it is truly sad.

  4. Randy says:

    Obama wants to control the internet so he can scrub it of bad things about himself? I’m gonna be laughing about that for a few days!

    • Blake says:

      Keep laughing- it is not specifically about his quotes- they routinely scrub what they can- but it is about control, and if you do not understand this, you should just give it up and put on your Nobama kneepads, because you will be living on your knees.

  5. Randy says:

    BTW Blake, there is nuclear power being built. It takes a while because nuclear power has the potential to kill us all in more ways than I care to count if it isn’t done right. Barack Obama has provided funding for more nuclear power to be used. It isn’t the answer to all our energy issues. It’s not renewable. It’s not clean. It’s only safe if done very carefully and with heavy regulations. It is very efficient though. And since you are so concerned with weather and natural disasters, how comfortable are you having a nuclear power plant built right next to a major fault line, where earthquakes occur all of the time?

    • Blake says:

      One would hope that engineers would take into account these dangers, but you never know these days, what with the public school system churning out illiterate students on society at the rate they do.
      Do you want the person who was 1st in his class designing this, or the clown who got a trophy just for showing up?
      I would hope the former, but you never know these days, unfortunately.
      Oh gosh, I am knocking the “educationally challenged”- I must be a bigot, or a racist, or some such idjit for even suggesting that the best is what we should strive for.

  6. Randy says:

    BTW, Barack Obama has signed legislation funding nuclear power development. The market is very active for nuclear power right now. It takes a while though because if it isn’t done correctly, one nuclear power plant could kill us all in a large number of ways all at the same time. Nuclear power isn’t clean, it’s only safe if heavily regulated, it isn’t renewable. It is very efficient, but it doesn’t really accomplish what needs to be accomplished in the direction that the energy industry is heading.

    • Blake says:

      Yes- he signs legislation, but the EPA withholds the permits- that way he can do his Pontious Pilate impression, and claim that he “signed” the legislation, so he is not at fault.
      It was the same way about the coal mines in W. Virginia- and that action has effectively shut down entire communities reliant on the mining of coal.
      BTW, Co2 has no effect on AGW, which is a myth that even your erstwhile scientists are beginning to revisit, so that would lead me to believe that it is not, as Al “Big Carbon” Gore would like you to believe, “settled science”.

      • Randy says:

        While the EPA probably has a few permits that need to be issued, the buck stops with the NRC and their permits. NRC permits of which six have been issued recently and the plants are under construction, with help from that stimulus package you were bitching so much about.

        I’m not going to get into your global warming conspiracies because that is not an issue I am using to back up my arguments.

        • Blake says:

          No, but that is the “issue” that the EPA and other regulatory agencies use to deny permits, like for coal plants. I understand that coal plants are not the best energy source, especially the older ones., but the tech IS getting better, and we shouldn’t overlook any energy source, particularly if it is homegrown.

        • Randy says:

          It’s an issue. It’s not the only issue, and I don’t need that issue to make my case for a smart grid and renewable energy.

  7. Blake says:

    My anecdotal evidence I use happened, even if a scientist wasn’t glued to my side making observations- and the fact that I have seen it done, means that you can reasonably extrapolate this same thing in other venues, such as agriculture. The fact that it is FECAL E. Coli, means that if there is no feedlot nearby, then the other options for contamination begin to narrow considerably, and my scenario becomes much more plausible.
    And there is a faction of your party, or whatever you call it, the far- left, who truly DO want to see this country destroyed- the Marxists and Socialists- and them I oppose and we have no common ground here- they are a clear and present danger to my country, and they are my enemies- period.
    Others may have distasteful positions, but I can argue mine, and that is freedom of speech for both sides- just remember Thomas Jefferson’s words-
    ” All that is needed for tyranny to triumph, is for good men to do nothing.”

  8. Adam says:

    “I’m going to be misquoted by conservatives to further their political views for the next 200 years.”

    -Thomas Jefferson