“The following have been attributed to Abe Lincoln. This is false, but I still believe in them.”>>

DAR
Thanks for admitting your quotes are false in advance. Saves me time.

Only false that Lincoln said them. That’s all.

DAR

I am not a socialist, I have never been a socialist.

Coward!

Darrel is interested in what you can show until you show it. He is interested in what can be shown until he has a belief, and then the belief is important.

Darrel has many Socialist beliefs. He used the sidewalk analogy to go off on a tangent. He claims some capitalist beliefs (and his sole reason for being in the US is because he can make money here) but he wants government to take care of everything and he has not said one bad thing about what is going on.

If he is not a Socialist, he is a Socialist sympathizer.

DAR
Why on earth would I care what “anyone here believes?” I am not in the least interested in what other people can bring themselves to “believe,” I am interested in what people can SHOW. I am not a socialist, I have never been a socialist.

MIKE: “That would make you a socialist.”>>

DAR
You are confused. Let’s try this. If a group of people are so far to the right that they think all sidewalks should be privatized, and they think publicly owned sidewalks are “socialist,” does that make you a socialist if you think it’s fine if sidewalks are publicly owned?

I don’t think so.

Stop the name calling. It’s not useful.

MIKE: “If I believed in socialism I would call myself a socialist,”>>

DAR
Label yourself as you wish.

MIKE: “I believe conservative policy helps all classes.”

DAR
I know you “believe” that.

MIKE: “The following have been attributed to Abe Lincoln. This is false, but I still believe in them.”>>

DAR
Thanks for admitting your quotes are false in advance. Saves me time.

D.

Mike Radigan
Yes cherry pick, Darrell, as Borg went on to argue the Swedes have gone WAY too far. He calls for a “night watchman’s state” in which the government provides security but little else. His Boss, Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt, compared the effects of Sweden’s welfare state to the plague and AIDS.

If you think that favors your point of view…
You’re either cherry picking or agreeing with what followed. You can’t have it both ways.

Darrel, do you honestly believe that anyone here believes you don’t believe in socialism? That would make you a socialist. If I believed in socialism I would call myself a socialist, labels be damned. But I believe in conservatism, so I’m a conservative. You can can me one. It’s OK.

BTW, I am not anti poor. Quite the opposite. I believe conservative policy helps all classes.

The following have been attributed to Abe Lincoln. This is false, but I still believe in them.

1. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
2. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong
3. You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.
4. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
5. You cannot build character and courage by taking away man’s initiative and independence.
6. You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
7. You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
8. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.
9. You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
10 You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they will not do for themselves.

D.

D.

DAR
He may be right. Perhaps the Swedes have gone way to far. That’s one man’s opinion. How does Sweden rank in the world under normal measurements of quality of life? See above. Third. So he can’t complain too much. I doubt people will pay him much attention.

MIKE: He calls for a “night watchman’s state” in which the government provides security but little else.>>

DAR
Well then he is way out of the mainstream and an extremist. Again, his is just one man’s opinion. I don’t doubt that Sweden has a few thousands of these. We should listen to this people and then move on to something useful.

MIKE: “…as far as my insults, I was merely presenting facts.”

DAR
You might try presenting facts without relying upon the insults.

MIKE: “…you wouldn’t call yourself one…”

DAR
Right. I don’t label myself a socialist. Best to allow people to label themselves. Anything else is almost always ad hominem.

MIKE: “YOUR WORDS, Darrell, YOUR WORDS.”>>

DAR
Yes, and according to my normative understanding of the word, I am not a socialist. So you can stop the childish name calling and stick to the issues.

MIKE: That defines cowardly when you won’t own your position.>>

DAR
I don’t call you by labels you don’t accept. It’s not unreasonable that I expect the same consideration.

D.

And as far as my insults, I was merely presenting facts. You espouse socialist ideas, yet you were the one who stated you wouldn’t call yourself one because of the word’s history and communism. YOUR WORDS, Darrell, YOUR WORDS. That defines cowardly when you won’t own your position.