Random Thoughts

Michael Moore has new movie out and it is a movie that is anti capitalism. Moore adds to his list of distorting films, F911 and Sicko (how much money did the anti capitalist make off them), with this movie about the evils of capitalism. But Moore will earn money from the movie. How is it possible for a person against capitalism to make money off his work? Yes, some folks will see it for free but Moore is in business to make money. He owns Halliburton and oil company stocks. Moore also does his post production work in Canada to avoid having to use union workers in the US and thus pays less for the service. Something tells me that his movie will not include these tid-bits about him.

Barack Obama said that we had to pass the stimulus bill now or we would get in a spiral from which we might not recover. We had to do it NOW.

Obama has been saying that we must pass health care reform (his takeover bill) NOW. He had a deadline of August but that came and went but he continues to say that it is imperative that we do this now. There is no time to wait, we must do it NOW. If it is so important to do NOW, why does it not take effect until 2013?

Interestingly, Obama took longer to decide on a family dog than he wants to allow for debate on the issues that he says we must do now.

The one thing that needs to be done NOW is resourcing our troops in Afghanistan. Health care takeover – NOW, read and respond to the troops request, not right now. Obama will push that off for a while as he takes time to study it. Can anyone explain why we don’t have time to read bills and why we must vote on them NOW but that we can delay the request of combat leaders until Obama has a chance to study it?

It has been 9 months since he took office. He talked about Afghanistan for several years before that. One would think he would have already put a plan in place but now, the man who said he would listen to commanders on the ground, is putting his request for more troops on hold.

Seems to me Obama is giving people a tobacco smoke enema. He has his priorities out of order.

Did you notice that a few thousand left wing morons protesting in Pittsburgh were unruly and had to be confronted by police? Did you notice that this small number of people made a mess and vandalized things? Did you notice how Obama said that compared to past G20 summits this one was tame and not well attended?

Did you notice that hundreds of thousands of protesters were in DC on 9/12 and none of them were arrested? Did you notice they left no trash and cleaned up after themselves? Obama did not notice them either claiming that he did not know about the protests. For that matter, the MSM ignored them. The MSM sure gave the G20 protesters a lot of air time though.

Left wing protesters and the 9-12 crowd. One group is good for America, the other is a bunch of lawbreakers who should be in jail. The people at the G20 should have been rounded up and sent to Gitmo (not because they protested but because they engaged in civil unrest that involved breaking the law and vandalized things while throwing rocks at police). They are fortunate they were not shot. Which means they are fortunate I was not in charge of the police there.

Did you notice that the Obama backed Pittsburgh Steelers are 1-2 so far this season?

The Census has added a question this year. They want to know if you and the people in your house are covered by insurance (and they list several kinds for you to indicate). Since Obama will fine or jail you for not having insurance, is it smart to answer this? Also, what does it have to do with the census and the provisions of the Constitution? For that matter, why do they need to know how many bathrooms I have?

I intend to answer only the questions that deal with the number of people in my family. The Constitution allows for the census to determine numbers of people for apportionment of representatives. There are no other provisions in there for all these other questions. If they want to know my income they can ask the IRS. If they want to know how many bathrooms (or other rooms) are in my house they can check with the county clerk who issued the building permit. If they want to know if I have health insurance they can suck wind because it is none of their business.

Anyone who answers all those questions is allowing them to usurp the Constitution.

As for census takers, they should be very careful about the questions they ask and about leaving when they are told to.

Big Dog

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91 Responses to “Random Thoughts”

  1. Blake says:

    Census workers will not get in my yard unless they call first, and then I will meet them at the gate- they are not welcome on my land, and I have a dog that feels the same way, although I am sure that if she bit an ACORN worker, she would catch a disease- thank God they will not do the census- I like my dog.

  2. Blake says:

    I also wonder how much of Moore’s income he gives to charity? I mean, if he hates capitalism, shouldn’t he be giving ALL but enough to keep his family in clothes and home, and trying to be just as poor as those he extols?

  3. Darrel says:

    Bigd: Michael Moore has new movie out and it is a movie that is anti capitalism.>>

    Actually, it’s a love story. MM, is a successful capitalist. He just thinks the interests of democracy, the interests of the populace, should trump the interests of capitalism. What a bizarre notion eh?

    Why don’t you have the intellectual courage to watch a MM movie?

    Bigd: Moore adds to his list of distorting films, F911 and Sicko>>

    Still waiting for an example. You like to make charges but you’re not so good in the “backing them up” department.

    Bigd:(how much money did the anti capitalist make off them),>>

    Hopefully a fair chunk. He was on Stern the other day and said if you didn’t count his home, he wouldn’t be a millionaire. It’s pretty clear that MM’s motivations are a sincere love of America and humanity, not making buckets of money.

    For too many people, it’s the other way around.

    Bigd: Moore is in business to make money.>>

    And that’s a good thing. But us capitalists should be responsible with how we conduct ourselves. MM is going to give some examples of how some capitalists have not been very responsible. Perhaps you should get the courage to consider these examples?

    Bigd: He owns Halliburton and oil company stocks.>>

    And he is/was a member of the NRA too. It’s a useful way of keeping an eye on these groups, be a shareholder, if only of a small amount of stock.
    Of course you were trying to pass along the canard that is a hypocrite for this. That’s just dumb.

    Bigd: Moore also does his post production work in Canada to avoid having to use union workers>>

    Of course you don’t have any evidence for that. Like I said, probably everything you believe and have read about MM is false. So it’s like many of your other areas of belief. Mountains of rubbish piled here and there. What a mess.

    Canada is about 30% unionized.

    The US about 12%.

    Going to Canada to “avoid union workers” would be a little counter productive wouldn’t it?

    Bigd: Something tells me that his movie will not include these tid-bits about him.>>

    Why would he include right-wing lies about him? He could devote an entire movie to that but it would be boring since everyone gets to see that all the time for free on the Tee Vee.

    TIME mag interview:

    Q: “But aren’t you really a model capitalist? You raise money. You hire people. You create a product and sell it to the public, bearing the risk and gaining the rewards that goes along with it.

    MM: Capitalism would have never let me be a filmmaker, living in Flint, Michigan with a high school education. I was going to have to make that happen myself. My last movie, I gave it away for free on the Internet: Slacker Uprising. If I were a capitalist I would not give my employees health insurance with no deductible, which I do, including dental, and paid pregnancy leave. That’s not called capitalism, that’s called being a Christian and someone who believes in democracy, so that everyone should get a fair slice of the pie.”

    • Blake says:

      It is only MM’s contention that he is a “filmmaker”- he is an uneducated rabblerouser with no sense of hypocrisy, so he fits right in with you moonbats.

      • Adam says:

        When a person makes films for a living, particularly high grossing, award winning box office hits, that person is typically regarded as a filmmaker. It’s sad that logic is so hard for you to grasp.

        • Blake says:

          Once again, art is according to the observer, and he is no artist- he is a hack, but then art has been so watered down in terms of true talent, it is not surprising you do not know what art truly is. Just because someone puts something on film doesn’t make him a “filmmaker”, or there would be some porno people who would qualify- indeed, at least their content would be more honest, and hardly less reprehensible than Moore’s.
          He is and has been a remarkable waste of space, and it is a testament to how uncultured and truly tasteless we as a society have become that he has any viewers at all.

  4. Adam says:

    You can pretend that the Constitution only allows for questions about population but that is of course false and not supported by the opinions our Supreme Court and by US Law. US Code, Title 13, Chapter 7, Subchapter II, 221 (a) outlines penalties related to your wrongful view of the Census.

    You’d be just as good to pretend the US Constitution doesn’t allow for cities to charge you quarters for parking in metered areas. Either one could cost you.

    • Blake says:

      I will bet you I can get by with the bare bones answers, like how many people are living here. That is the only question relevant to the census- all else is invasion of privacy.

      • Adam says:

        I’m sure it will be fine but break the law at your own peril. Let’s not pretend your opinion on the law means anything when it comes to breaking the law. Just ask Wesley Snipes who bought into all those bogus ideas about the unconstitutionality of not paying taxes…

    • Big Dog says:

      I don’t live on a farm. The Supreme Court has heard cases based on this? The link was to the USC. Just because it is code does not make it Constitutional. As for the Constitution, it only discusses enumeration (counting people).

      If someone can show me how knowing what color I am or how many bathrooms I have can be used to enumerate the population then I will be glad to comply.

      However, the first question is the only one that is required by the Constitution, how many people live in your house?

      The rest is not required by the Constitution and is invasive.

      However, it says I have to answer them so an answer to how many bathrooms I have such as enough to meet my needs is an honest answer. I can answer every question like that and not violate the law requiring me to answer and to do so honestly.

      Though if you are choosing between being dishonest and not answering, don’t answer, the fine is less.

      Of you can answer like me and be fine.

      I can give the same answers to a census worker.

      • Adam says:

        You can keep giving your opinion on what you think is unconstitutional but that is pretty irrelevant. The Supreme Court is obvious authority in this case and the interpretation is as follows:

        This extended scope of the census has received the implied approval of the Supreme Court; 314 it is one of the methods whereby the national legislature exercises its inherent power to obtain the information necessary for intelligent legislative action.

  5. Big Dog says:

    Yeah, all right wing lies about moore. You of course roast these things so why bother, right.

    Shown again and again. F 911 (was free just before the election in 2004 because he wanted Bush to lose) but charged for at theaters. He had many errors in that movie. There are several books dealing with this. Moore can cite references but you can make any reference appear how you want it.

    I agree with Clint Eastwood, if he ever shows up at my house with a camera I will kill him.

    Evidently, those who do post production in Canada are not union.

    • Darrel says:

      Bigd: F 911 (was free just before the election in 2004 because he wanted Bush to lose) but charged for at theaters.>>

      Where was it “free?” What on earth are you talking about? It was released on June 23, 2004, and it was never “free.”

      Bigd: “you can make any reference appear how you want it.”>>

      I’m a magic man.

      Actually, it’s called critical thinking and it’s where I make references appear as they actually are. When you set aside ideology and devote your self to finding out and believing what is actually true, and then practice over and over, it’s just something that naturally happens. You should try it.

      Bigd: He had many errors in that movie.>>

      Then you shouldn’t have any trouble at all in pointing a couple of them out.

      Really, I would like to see one. With all of this noise you people make surely there must be something. I have examined many claims in this regard and have found every single one of them to be false, and usually an astonishing lie.

      Perhaps you can do better. I doubt it.

      Bigd: “those who do post production in Canada are not union.”>>

      Now all you have to do to support your claim is show that he does this post production in Canada for the express purpose avoiding American unions, and not one of any number of other reasons that would have absolutely nothing to do with that. Let me know if you would like a list.


  6. Big Dog says:

    Let us not forget the information you provide is supposed to be protected. During WWII the government used census data to round up Japanese Americans, those who followed the “law” and answered the questions, and put them in concentration camps.

    If you answer the health insurance question as not having it then they will know to look for you when they pass the law requiring you to have it. Self incrimination.

    Just don’t answer anything that has nothing to do with counting people.

  7. Big Dog says:

    The difference between Snipes’ case and the census is that the Constitution says you have to pay taxes. It only says you have to be counted, nothing else.

    And no one has said Moore is not a film maker. A deceptive and dishonest one, but that is what he does for a living.

    He is a higher paid version of the two who went after ACORN.

    The fact that he is a film maker would not stop me from shooting him for trespassing if he knocked on my door and shoved a camera in my face.

    Though I might just beat him to death.

    • Darrel says:

      Bigd: “He is a higher paid version of the two who went after ACORN.”>>

      And what do you think of those two?


      • Big Dog says:

        I think they are film makers. The difference is that they did not splice and edit things to present a lie.

        I never denied Moore was a film maker, he is just dishonest.

        • Adam says:

          Actually, their work has come under a growing level of scrutiny as what they say happened has started to disagree with documented reality from police reports and accounts of their actions. It doesn’t matter now though. Their little hit job got them plenty of airtime by morons like Sean Hannity.

        • Darrel says:

          Bigd: “I think they are film makers.”>>

          That’s a duck. I didn’t ask their vocation. You said MM is a higher paid version “of the two who went after ACORN.”

          What do you think of their conduct? And a follow up: why the double standard?

          Bigd: “The difference is that they did not splice and edit things to present a lie.”>>

          Oh really? And you know this how? Did they include all the film from the places they went to and got turned away? Nope.

          But what they got was damning enough. And incidentally, I quite approve.

          Although, now, big surprise, we find the fellow was lying about his funding.

          “James O’Keefe,… has repeatedly said that he is “absolutely independent” and received no outside funding to make his films.

          But the Voice has learned that O’Keefe, in fact, has had heavyweight conservative backers who funded the young filmmaker as recently as a few months before his ACORN films were made.”


    • Adam says:

      “And no one has said Moore is not a film maker.”

      Nobody but Blake of course, but maybe Blake doesn’t count anymore since almost every word typed by his fingers is an affront to logic and reason.

      • Blake says:

        Pot calling the Kettle black? (oh- is that racist?) There is a difference in my opinion between a filmmaker and someone who does a poor imitation of Lilli Reifenstahl- but you might not be aware of her- you are liberal, hence have an inherently poor grasp on history.
        My logic and reasoning are fine BTW.

  8. Big Dog says:

    Is this an accurate portrayal of what took place in the film or is it a lie. Can you defend this as true?

    The film shows CBS and CNN calling Florida for Al Gore. According to the narrator, “Then something called the Fox News Channel called the election in favor of the other guy….All of a sudden the other networks said, ‘Hey, if Fox said it, it must be true.'”

    We then see NBC anchor Tom Brokaw stating, “All of us networks made a mistake and projected Florida in the Al Gore column. It was our mistake.”

    • Darrel says:

      Bigd: “Is this an accurate portrayal of what took place in the film or is it a lie. Can you defend this as true?>>

      Yes, and yes.

      You made the claim that he made many errors. It’s not clear what you are claiming is an error. I guess you just want to throw something out there and have me to do the work of knocking down something you haven’t even bother to set up.

      As I said, MM is careful to reference, in great detail, all of the major claims in his movies. This makes it much easier to knock down the nonsense that people invariably throw at him.

      See below.

      FAHRENHEIT 9/11: Fox was the first network to call Florida for Bush. Before that, some other networks had called Florida for Gore, and they changed after Fox called it for Bush.

      * “With information provided from the Voter News Service, NBC was the first network to project Gore the winner in Florida at 7:48 pm. At 7:50 pm ,CNN and CBS project Gore the winner in Florida as well.” By 8:02 pm , all five networks and the Associated Press had called Gore the winner in Florida. Even the VNS called Gore the winner at 7:52 pm. At 2:16 am, Fox calls Florida for Bush, NBC follows at 2:16 am. ABC is the last network to call the Florida for Bush, at 2:20 am, while AP and VNS never call Florida for Bush. CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/stories/02/02/cnn.report/cnn.pdf

      * Ten minutes after the top of the hour, network excitement was again beginning to build. At 2:16 a.m., the call was made: Fox News Channel, with Bush’s first cousin John Ellis running its election desk, was the first to project Florida — and the presidency — for the Texas governor. Within minutes, the other networks followed suit. “George Bush, Governor of Texas will become the 43rd President of the United States,” CNN’s Bernard Shaw announced atop a graphic montage of a smiling Bush. “At 18 minutes past two o’clock Eastern time, CNN declares that George Walker Bush has won Florida’s 25 electoral votes and this should put him over the top.”PBS: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/media/election2000/election_night.html

      You started with number one. If you want to save yourself some time, go here and go through the list of references backing up his claims:


      It’s long.

      • Big Dog says:

        Actually, Moore is misleading in this assertion. When one views the film the assumption would be that two networks called the race for Gore, Fox then said Bush and they changed their prediction.

        The reality is, Fox News called the race for Gore at 7:52 pm and was the second network to do so. At 10 pm CBS retracted its prediction but Fox had not yet called the race for Bush. Fox did not retract the Gore prediction until 2 am the next day.

        Fox then called Florida for Bush at 2:16 and the other networks followed suit.

        MM gives the impression that Fox somehow influenced the other networks and that is clearly not the case.

        “Moore’s editing technique of the election night segment is typical of his style: all the video clips are real clips, and nothing he says is, narrowly speaking, false. But notice how he says, “Then something called the Fox News Channel called the election in favor of the other guy…” The impression created is that the Fox call of Florida for Bush came soon after the CBS/CNN calls of Florida for Gore, and that Fox caused the other networks to change (“All of a sudden the other networks said, ‘Hey, if Fox said it, it must be true.'”)

        This is the essence of the Moore technique: cleverly blending half-truths to deceive the viewer.” Source

        Like I said, MM is deceitful and uses half truths to convey the message he wants and not necessarily the truth of what happened.

        The other networks did not change because of “something called Fox”, they changed because they were all using VPN.

        This is laid out quite well in a CBS report on what happened that night.

        As for a Bush who was at Fox having influence, this is ridiculous. Perhaps MM would care to answer why the other networks called the race for Gore before the polls closed thus costing Bush thousands of votes.

        The linked site has many other pieces of information. Some conclude that MM had the facts right but portrayed them in a different light and others are outright lies.

        The site shows how MM was deliberately deceitful about what he reported, like the issue of Saudis leaving the country when no one was allowed to fly and they had not been interviewed. This is untrue. The restrictions on certain chartered flights was eased and the Saudis flew out but they had been interviewed by the FBI and they did not fly out right away. They left over a 10 day period.

        You can claim MM is not a liar but the fact is he used footage and manipulated it to deliberately deceive people. That is known as a lie.

        • Big Dog says:

          And this is from the CBS report:

          The CBS News Decision Desk team had already been working on calling Florida for Bush, since his lead seemed to be increasing. The team was preparing to make the call when it heard Fox declare Florida for Bush, and the CBS News Decision Team thought, “Darn, we’re going to be second.” Then NBC called Florida for Bush and the team said, “Well, third.” The people on the CBS News Decision Desk took another 30 seconds to finish their data check. Why not go ahead right after the Fox call, instead of doing the final check and ending up the third network with the call? The decision-makers told us they would rather be the only ones not to make a call than to make a call and be wrong.” [emphasis mine]

          So tell me, how is it that something called Fox called it for Bush and the others followed when CBS admits it was getting ready to call it for Bush because his numbers were increasing.

          Once again, this shows that MM deliberately deceived people by leading them to believe one thing when something else was the truth.

        • Big Dog says:

          You should read the time line in the report. It portrays a vastly different scenario than MM gives. They were all using VNS and Fox based its call on the data provided. VNS made an error in reporting, one which CBS admits was not caught by anyone until after the call for Bush. You and MM like to believe that a Bush at Fox had something to do with it but the truth is they were all relying on the same data. However, the report does discuss influence from a candidate’s person:

          “At around this time, but he is not sure exactly when, CBS News President Andrew
          Heyward receives a call in the control room from Gore Campaign Chairman William Daley. It lasts less than a minute. Daley asks whether Heyward is aware of the dwindling
          Bush lead and whether CBS News is considering pulling back its call for Bush.”

          So it was a Gore person working the networks. Not saying he shouldn’t, that is their jobs, but why leave all this out? It is because MM is trying to deceive people into believing that Bush stole this election with the help of Fox and a relative. All lies.

        • Darrel says:

          Bigd: “all the video clips are real clips, and nothing he says is, narrowly speaking, false.”>>

          So your source agrees with me. You really could have made your post much shorter.

          Bigd: “MM is trying to deceive people into believing that Bush stole this election>>

          He did steal the election.

          Bigd: with the help of Fox and a relative.>>

          His relative at FOX did what he could.

          F 911: The man who was in charge of the decision desk at FOX on election night was Bush’s first cousin, John Ellis.

          * “John Ellis, a first cousin of George W. Bush, ran the network’s ‘decision desk’ during the 2000 election, and Fox was the first to name Bush the winner. Earlier, Ellis had made six phone calls to Cousin Bush during the vote-counting.” William O’Rourke, “Talk Radio Key to GOP Victory,” Chicago Sun-Times, December 3, 2002.

          * A Fox News consultant, John Ellis, who made judgments about presidential ‘calls’ on Election Night admits he was in touch with George W. Bush and FL Gov. Jeb Bush by telephone several times during the night, but denies breaking any rules. CNN, November 14, 2000; http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/

          * John Ellis, the Fox consultant who called Florida early for George Bush, had to stop writing about the campaign for the Boston Globe because of family ‘loyalty’ to Bush. CBS News, http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/
          November 14, 2000. –MM, ibid

          So of all of the examples of errors you could throw at MM, you choose to go with these tiny nuances of a disputed timeline (as if CBS wouldn’t be covering their bottom on this if they had followed FOX, and who cares anyway) and in the end, after all of the blather and opinion, YOUR cut and paste source says:

          “all the video clips are real clips, and nothing he says is, narrowly speaking, false.”

          Got anything better? Something substantive?

          Bigd: “the issue of Saudis leaving the country”

          Make your case. Be specific in quoting MM’s claims accurately rather than paraphrasing a movie you haven’t seen. We’ll see how it holds up.


  9. Big Dog says:

    All the films I saw had a number counter ticking on them and it did not skip. No one who has reviewed the films have claimed they were spliced except ACORN, which one would expect.

    No double standard. Moore did not shoot his own footage of public officials for F911. He used archive footage shot by other organizations (almost all of it).

    These two shot their own films. They are independent film makers like Moore. They just happen to be more honest.

    • Darrel says:

      Regarding splicing, there was no need. The material that was not damning to ACORN, the material that would have made them look good (when the workers turned them away), is never shown.

      Bigd: “No double standard.”

      Of course double standard. YOU said Moore is: “…is a higher paid version of the two who went after ACORN.”

      You are saying their tactics are the same (and they are) yet YOU like one and vilify the other. Biased, double, standard according to your own words.

      Bigd: “Moore… used archive footage of public officials”>>

      Yes he did. And this matters why?

      Bigd: “They just happen to be more honest.”

      Your still trying to land a glove on MM. We’ll see how that goes.

      Was O’Keefe “more honest” when he said he received no outside funding to make his film, and now we find he actually received 30 thousand dollars?

      On what right-wing planet is that “more honest?”


  10. Big Dog says:

    I am amazed that you guys attack the two who made the films and defend ACORN.

    OK, I’m not really amazed.

    • Darrel says:

      Bigd: “you guys attack the two who made the films and defend ACORN.

      Not true.

      With regard to O’Keefe’s action (which is as you say a lower paid version of MM), I said above:

      “And incidentally, I quite approve.”

      With regard to ACORN, they’re great. They do a lot of good work. The amount of money they receive from the government is tiny. Any organization of this size is going to have bad apples. Fire them. Clean house. Do more stings.


  11. Big Dog says:

    Sorry Darrel, as I have shown, MM deliberately uses footage to deceive. He manipulates the facts to show what he wants people to believe, not what really happened. The amateurs did not do that.

    It is no double standard. I know they did not use dishonest tactics to deceive. They shot their own footage and showed it. MM takes other footage and manipulates it. He makes people believe that what is happening is something else.

    He did that with the dinner where politicians joke about themselves. He made it look like Bush was saying that the elitists are his base when he was at the dinner. He was there with Gore who also claimed to have started the dinner (which started 2 years before he was born). It was all jokes and self depricating humor. It raised millions for the poor.

    MM does not show any of that and he leaves people believing something else.

    That is a lie, no matter what you call it.

    • Darrel says:

      Bigd: He made it look like Bush was saying that the elitists are his base when he was at the dinner.>>

      He “made it look?” That’s what Bush said, verbatim. Are you on glue?

      Bush and Gore do NY:

      “Bush gazed around the diamond-studded $800-a-plate crowd and commented on the wealth on display.

      “This is an impressive crowd – the haves and the have-mores,” quipped the GOP standard-bearer. “Some people call you the elites; I call you my base.”


      Bigd: “he manipulates the facts to show what he wants people to believe”

      He has an opinion and he uses the medium of film to give his opinion. You don’t like his opinion. Some times he is sloppy (but not nearly as sloppy as you). Sometimes his opinion, in my opinion, is petty and stupid (blaming K-Mart for legally selling bullets which were used to kill someone, is petty and stupid).
      But I am not so concerned with opinion. Let’s see if you can show a substantive factual error.


  12. Big Dog says:

    You, like MM, take my words out of context.

    Get rid of all of ACORN. Beck has thoroughly exposed them for the corrupt organization they are.

    No tax money for them. Dry up and blow away. They do not do good work. I wish I were one of the guys whose house they protested in front of. There would be a lot of sorry ACORN members (or dead ones).

  13. Adam says:

    I defend ACORN for sure. They have plenty of problems they need to address but nothing has shown they aren’t addressing them.

    It’s a lot like your criticism for the United Nations. Has every one of their missions gone off without a problem? No. Has their internal structure been 100% corruption free? No. But they clean up their messes when they are found and they do good, essential work.

    In your eyes it quickly becomes not a matter of a few bad apples, but a matter of them being a totally corrupt organization. Funny how it always works out that way when it’s an organization with goals you don’t support.

    • Big Dog says:

      I have never believed we should be in the UN and I don’t believe they do good work. We pay a fortune to them and they let despots and tin pot dictators sit at the table. They put people on the human rights commisison who have the worst human rights records in the world. They do not oversee their peacekeepers who rape women and spread AIDS. None of this is cleaned up, they just send the people back home.

      They have no teeth, they hate our country and all they want is our money.

      ACORN is a corrupt organization that has allowed crime to fester for decades.

      • Darrel says:

        Bigd: I don’t believe they [the UN] do good work.>>

        Then you have left stepped outside of the reality based community where the rest of us reside.

        Very abbreviated list of:


        1. Deploying more than 35 peace-keeping missions. There are presently 16 active peace-keeping forces in operation.

        2. Credited with negotiating 172 peaceful settlements that have ended regional conflicts

        3. The UN has enabled people in over 45 countries to participate in free and fair elections

        5. UNICEF spends more than $800 million a year, primarily on immunization, health care, nutrition and basic education in 138 countries.

        6. UN Human Rights Commission has focused world attention on cases of torture, disappearance, and arbitrary detention and has generated international pressure.

        8. Has helped minimize the threat of a nuclear war by inspecting nuclear reactors in 90 [countries].

        11. The UN was a major factor in bringing about the downfall of the apartheid system.

        12. More than 30 million refugees fleeing war, famine or persecution have received aid from the UN.

        13. Aiding Palestinian Refugees with free schooling, essential health care, relief assistance and key social services… 2.9 million refugees…

        14. Alleviating Chronic Hunger and Rural Poverty in Developing Countries, providing credit that has benefited over 230 million people in nearly 100 developing countries.

        17. Providing Safe Drinking Water ­ Available to 1.3 billion people in rural areas during the last decade.

        18. Eradicating Smallpox ­ through vaccinations and monitoring. Helped wipe out polio from the Western Hemisphere,…

        19. Pressing for Universal Immunization of polio, tetanus…[etc] saving the lives of more than 3 million children each year.

        20. Reducing child mortality rates, halved since 1960,…

        21. Fighting parasitic diseases, such as saving the lives of 7 million children from going blind from the river blindness

        See another 33 examples here:


        As to the cost:

        “It’s a bureaucracy certainly, but not huge,” says former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright. The annual core [UN] functions cost about $1.25 billion, or she says, “roughly what the Pentagon spends every 32 hours.” — http://tinyurl.com/tii9

  14. Adam says:

    You’d think given your objections, that in both ACORN and the UN that the corruption is so rampant, or the organization so small, that the level would matter. Neither case is true. No organization as large as ACORN, much less as massive as the UN, is going to be 100% corruption free. You do not support the causes, therefore you only see the bad.

  15. Big Dog says:

    I see the bad regardless of the causes. Yes, I disagree with what they do because they are rabble rousers who cause problems. THEY were partly responsible for putting people in houses they could not afford.

    It starts at the top. Rathke is a criminal, they have criminal enterprises and front groups, they are involved in influence peddling.

    They are no good.

    Funny though Adam, you did not take this position when a FEW soldiers were accused of abuse at Abu Ghraib. You looked at it as an indictment of the entire military as did your hero Ted Kennedy and many of his fellow Democrats.

    The military took care of the abusers but you still looked at it as a systemic problem indicative of all members.

    So, usuing your words, it was because you do not support he military.

    • Darrel says:

      Bigd: “they [ACORN] are rabble rousers who cause problems.”>>

      Like educating poor people about community action and getting them to vote!

      • Big Dog says:

        Like educating poor people about community action and getting them to vote!

        Over, and over, and over again. They are good at organizing dead people, fictional characters and celebrities as well.

        If they are so good at educating poor people why did so many idiots who voted for Obama answer the questions so stupidly on exit? They took all of McCain’s positions and attributed them to Obama and asked people how they feel and they loved it. Means they should have voted for McCain but ACORN educated them that they had to vote for a Democrat (and bonus, a black one) in order to get free gubmint cheese.

        Who said “I can see Russia from my house?”

        That was oine of the questions and none of them got it right. Do you know the answer?

        • Darrel says:

          [Who said “I can see Russia from my house?”]

          Tina Fey, a comedian turning up the volume ever so slightly on some bit of idiocy from Palin.

          Speaking of McCain, you did notice that Beck said the other day:

          “I think John McCain would have been worse for the country than Barack Obama,…”



      • Blake says:

        If the people do not know the importance of voting, they are too ignorant to go to the polls. You should not have to be led by the nose to the polls and told who to vote for.

  16. Adam says:

    I don’t hide from the fact that I’ve engaged in illogical “team mentality” partisanship in the past. I’d like to think I’ve grown out of that kind of nonsense. What’s your excuse?

    • Blake says:

      You are deluded- your “team mentality” is still very much in evidence- when you can see that there is a huge problem in what is happening on your “team”, then you will have made progress, grasshopper.

  17. Big Dog says:

    You would like to think you grew out of it because you are happy with the last election results.

    I need no excuse, my opposition is not based on illogical assertions, it is based on viewing the history of the organizations and realizing that the excuse that they are so big they are bound to have problems is just a smoke screen to minimize wider ranging abuses.

  18. Adam says:

    No matter what I think the military has done I have never called for their complete dismantling, or to defund them so they “dry up and blow away.”

    I know the military serves our nation. That’s the difference. You don’t see any purpose in ACORN or the UN so you just fabricate your excuses for why they need to go away.

    And just so that no wing nut freaks, let me state that I am not saying the military and ACORN are on par with how they serve this country, just that once you feel an organization has a purpose and is doing good work you are going to look beyond their flaws.

    I’m sure you just want to do away with Blackwater (or whatever it’s called now) or Halliburton because they’ve been caught in the wrong. Or the Red Cross because they’ve had fraud at all levels before.

    The key here is not that ACORN has systemic fraud. It does not. Not even close. The problem is you take a few cases of wrongful actions and you stretch it to fit your view of ACORN because you don’t support the work they do in any way.

    It’s sad and pathetic that a group like ACORN with it’s track record of work which you are obvious to would be attacked and damaged by such partisan morons and bozos like Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, and Rush Limbaugh. But that’s the conservative media for you. A bunch of circus clowns posing as reliable sources.

  19. Big Dog says:

    Bush did not steal the election. All post counts analysis shows he won. CBS called the state for Gore while the polls were still opne, analysis shows it cost Bush thousands of votes.

    You have trouble seeing that being deceptive is LYING. MM lies, plain and simple. He lied in the movie and he lied about the Fox influencing the elction. ALL stations retracted the Bush call regardless of who called it for him in the first place (though CBS did it first and and admitted they were going to do it before Fox did and were mad they got scooped).

    You can’t see the deceptions because you are infatuated with Moore and that is fine but don’t act as if he is not trying to deceive or that another’s assessment of that deception is wrong.

    I did not see the movie, he will make no money off me though if I had it I would make a bunch of copies and give them away.

    I agree with Eastwood. If MM showed up at my house and stuck a camera in my face I would kill him.

    • Darrel says:

      Bigd: Bush did not steal the election. All post counts analysis shows he won.>>

      FAHRENHEIT 9/11 claimed: Gore got the most votes in 2000.

      * [A] consortium [Tribune Co., owner of the Times; Associated Press; CNN; the New York Times; the Palm Beach Post; the St. Petersburg Times; the Wall Street Journal; and the Washington Post] hired the NORC [National Opinion Research Center, a nonpartisan research organization affiliated with the University of Chicago] to view each untallied ballot and gather information about how it was marked. The media organizations then used computers to sort and tabulate votes, based on varying scenarios that had been raised during the post-election scramble in Florida. Under any standard that tabulated all disputed votes statewide, Mr. Gore erased Mr. Bush’s advantage and emerged with a tiny lead that ranged from 42 to 171 votes. Donald Lambro, “Recount Provides No Firm Answers,” Washington Times, November 12, 2001.

      * “The review found that the result would have been different if every canvassing board in every county had examined every undervote, a situation that no election or court authority had ordered. Gore had called for such a statewide manual recount if Bush would agree, but Bush rejected the idea and there was no mechanism in place to conduct one.” Martin Merzer, “Review of Ballots Finds Bush’s Win Would Have Endured Manual Recount,” Miami Herald, April 4, 2001.

      * See also, the following article by one of the Washington Post journalists who ran the consortium recount. The relevant point is made in Table I of the article. http://www.aei.org/docLib/20040526_KeatingPaper.pdf

      Bigd: MM lies, plain and simple.>>

      Show this. Your source says: “nothing he says is, narrowly speaking, false.”

      How are you gonna squeeze a lie out of that. Remember to show: a,b,c.

      If you guys restrained yourselves to only posting stuff that was, narrowly speaking, NOT false, it would make your posts much shorter!

      Bigd: “if I had it [copy of MM’s movie] I would make a bunch of copies and give them away.”>>

      So you have no trouble with breaking the law and doing things that are illegal when it suits your purposes. Nice.


  20. Big Dog says:

    Well Adam, the military is authorized by the Constitution so it would be hard to dismantle.

    The talk hosts you mention have very cogent arguments about these companies and what they have been doing. ACORN is partisan and uses our tax dollars to advance LIBERAL causes. Why are we paying for this?

    ACORN had a hand in the economic problems we now face, their leadership embezzeled money, they break laws, they are no good. Dismantles? Maybe not but NOT ONE RED CENT of taxpayer money should go to them. Same with the UN.

    Not sure how much money Red Cross gets from taxpayers but if they had problems with anything on the level of ACORN they should lose the funding.

    Halliburton is a contractor and paid fines for what it did wrong. Any fines on ACORN?

  21. Big Dog says:

    Of course Darrel, you make the mistake again. I did not say he made a factual error, I said he lied. You can manipulate facts to show a lie.

    No where in that movie does MM indicate that Bush is at a dinner and is spoofing himself for the charity. The movie clip is designed to make viewers believe that this is a serious talk and that Bush is an elitist. He also fails to show Gore doing the same thing (spoofing) which would have given the clip context.

    You are not interested in opinion and yet acknowledge that this is what MM presented, his opinion. So why present it as fact? Why deceive? Why not tell people that this is his opinion of what happened?

    Because he is a hack coward who needs a serious a$$ whipping.

  22. Big Dog says:

    I never said the UN did not do a few good things and the list you provide is a matter of opinion as to whether it is all good. Peacekeeping missions are a joke, they have rapists among them and allowed warlords in Somalia to steal the supplies intended for the needy.

    The UN is anti Semetic and does far fewer good things than bad. So, they do notdo good work.

    • Darrel says:

      [I never said the UN did not do a few good things]

      You said: “I don’t believe they do good work.”

      They do. In fact, they do tremendous work, more good work than any organization on the planet, and for a pittance.

      Sometimes when I hear such ignorance I wonder why the US should have the honor of being the host nation for this organization that has done so much to improve the world. Then I realize that your silly, ignorance based opinions are from a noisy yet diminishing minority within a noisy yet diminishing party.

      #17. Providing Safe Drinking Water ­ Available to 1.3 billion people in rural areas during the last decade.

      • Big Dog says:

        It is a matter of opinion whether they do better work than anyone on the planet.

        However, that pittance is a farce. They get a lot of money from other countries (especially us) and the home countries pay for the people they send.

        The UN might actually be worth something if they got rid of half the member nations.

      • Big Dog says:

        I don’t believe they do good work is a general assessment of them overall. I don’t think Hitler was a decent human being though I am sure he did some good things.

  23. Adam says:

    ACORN had a hand in the economic problems? That’s a major stretch.

    • Blake says:

      Wow- Even I did not believe you could be THAT blind- by confronting banks and causing them to change their lending practices,and by putting poor people into homes they could not afford, ACORN caused Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, as the guarantors of these risky and unsustainable loans, to go over the edge, dragging AIG, Wachovia, Morgan Stanley and others with them in a domino effect.
      Were they the only cause? No. But they were certainly a good part of the cause, that is plain.

  24. Big Dog says:

    Not many Obama people surveyed knew that and many did not know Biden was the running mate.

    I like how you call it Palin idiocy as if she is stupid or something. If only the women in your life were as accomplished.

    As for McCain being worse for the country, not sure. I think it is about a toss up. McCain would certainly be better for national security but that is about all. He is a Democrat lite.

    Adam, ACORN = CRA = Housing Collapse = Economic collapse

    • Darrel says:

      Bigd: “I like how you call it Palin idiocy as if she is stupid or something.>>

      Of course she’s stupid. She was running for the gig of being back up for president and she couldn’t refer to a single supreme court case that she knew of. She couldn’t refer to a single news periodical she reads. She is an idiot on stilts. She is an intellectual joke, a farce. When Tina Fey did an award winning performance making Palin look like a fool, she simply read Palin’s comments from an interview… verbatim.

      Bigd: If only the women in your life were as accomplished.”>>

      Unlike Palin, my wife wouldn’t quit her job half way through, and she easily has a higher approval rating than Palin.

      Favorable: 34%
      Unfavorable: 55%
      Unsure: 11%



  25. Big Dog says:

    And, I just want the US out of the UN. I don’t care if it still exists but it needs to move to another country.

    We can take care of ourselves and do not need the UN for anything. Let them take care of those who need the help and let them do it with someone else’s money.

  26. Big Dog says:

    No Darrel, Gore only wins when one method is employed and it involved trying to interpret what a person meant to do when he voted for two people.

    The post analysis shows that Bush had a lead in all other instances.

    But, if you want to throw out the games, CBS nearly stole the election from Bush. They deliberately called the race for Gore when the polls were still open in the panhandle, an area that is heavily Republican.

    This had a chilling effect on voters, many of whom did not go vote (or stay to vote). That was deliberate so that Bush would lose votes.

    You guys have a lot of nerve blaming Fox and a Bush relative when a thing called CBS tried to steal the election (like they did with the phony papers).

    Bush lost thousands of votes. Also, how many military votes were not counted? The military voter is always disenfranchised. Gore knows that the military would have voted overwhelmingly for Bush.

    Moore is a liar, F911 is full of deceptions (which means lies) and anyone who believes that the election was stolen does not understand what took place.

    let me help you. Assuming the statewide recounts etc would have benefited Gore, they would not have done so based on his request to only count sertain areas. The things that might have helped him he DID NOT ask for.

    The courts rule on those kinds of things. But, Gore lost the vote.

    Now if you want stolen, think Al Franken.

    • Adam says:

      Can we stop using the phrase “chilling effect” yet? Lately I like to apply that phrase to pretty much anything. Like…using the phrase “chilling effect” has a chilling effect on rational discussion.

    • Darrel says:

      So rather than admit his mistake, Bigd moves the goal posts from:

      “All post counts analysis shows he [Bush] won.>>

      To: “The post analysis shows that Bush had a lead in all other instances.”

      Nice. And if I spank that one, he just makes up a new set of goal posts. Repeat. Boring.

      Bush, the illegitimate president, is such spilt milk.

      Bigd: “Moore is a liar”>>

      Raising the bar? Good. Let’s see you show one of those puppies. Remember your abc’s.


  27. Adam says:

    ACORN = CRA = Housing Collapse = Economic collapse = Complete BS

  28. Adam says:

    Al Franken stole the election? Get real.

    • Big Dog says:

      Absolutely Franken stole the election. The ACORN fraud coupled with the shady counts (which were worse than hanging chads) led to a fraudulent candidate.

      You can’t have it both ways. I know that if they have a D crime is expected but you should be smarter than blind obedience.

      • Adam says:

        I would love to see your evidence that Franken stole the election with the help of ACORN.

        A close and contested election does not equal a stolen election.

        • Blake says:

          Areas of Minnesota that were heavily worked by ACORN were not allowed to be recounted and voters verified, so the question persists, and given ACORN’s history of registering people multiple times, as well as Mickey Mouse et al, you have to ask yourself if there just might be a verification PROBLEM, given that the Secretary of the State, in charge of certifying the vote, was a liberal.

      • Darrel says:

        What a load. I watched that one very closely because I really like Franken and sent him money several times.

        Let’s review some of the basics:

        “The results were certified by each county’s canvassing board and then on November 18, 2008, by the Minnesota State Canvassing Board.”

        “Of the five Canvassing Board members, Ritchie was an elected DFLer, the two justices were appointed by a Republican governor, one judge was appointed by an Independence Party governor, and one was elected in a non-partisan election.”

        “The state canvassing board certified the recounted vote totals on January 5 with Franken ahead by 225 votes.”

        “Coleman’s appeal of the panel’s decision to the Minnesota Supreme Court was unanimously rejected.”


        Coleman, a genuinely stupid person, is such spilt, sour, stinking, milk. Franken will be Senator for decades.

        “Most of us here in the media are what I consider infotainers…. Rush Limbaugh is what I call a disinfotainer. He entertains by spreading disinformation.”
        –Al Franken at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner (4/23/94)

        • Blake says:

          Franken is a failed comedian! You really can not get any more truly ignorant than that- dumber than a bag of manure.
          What a waste of your money, D- but it IS your money, so go ahead and be poorer.
          Franken has a history of foul mouth behavior- I see him as a one term mistake.

      • Darrel says:

        [Franken is a failed comedian!]

        Failed? Are we talking about the same person?

        Or are you just lying again?


        ps. The word “failed” and Franken don’t really go well together. Watch:

        “Franken received seven Emmy nominations and three Emmy Awards for his television writing and production.

        Franken is the author of five New York Times best-selling books, three of which reached #1

        Franken was presented with the USO’s Merit Award for his 10 years of service to the organization through visiting injured and deployed service members.

        Franken was sworn in to the Senate on Tuesday, July 7, 2009.”

        Truth hurts when you are devoted to lies.


        • Big Dog says:

          So Darrel, you agree with Blake. Franken is a failed COMEDIAN.

          The awards you mention are not for his being a COMEDIAN. He has awards for writing and for supporting the USO but none of them are awards for being a great COMEDIAN.

          You did it again, you quoted Blake and then left out part of what he said. Then you claimed the wordfailed and Franken do not go together. Blake never said they do. He said the words FAILED COMEDIAN and Franken go together.

        • Darrel says:

          Bigd: “but none of them are awards for being a great COMEDIAN.>>

          Note to Bigd, all of Franken’s books, including the three NYT’s #1 best sellers, are filled with comedy, because they were written by a very successful, comedian.

          Also, his “seven Emmy nominations and three Emmy Awards for his television writing and production,” are, contrary to what you claim, indeed awards for his ability to write COMEDY.

          You have been listening to Bill O’Lielly’s lies too much.

          After having what is by any reasonable measurement a very successful career in comedy Franken has now been successful in winning a seat in the US Senate, truly a house full of jokers.

          In no sense is Franken a failed comedian.

          For actual “failure,” see… Norm Coleman.

          Bigd:”you quoted Blake and then left out part of what he said.”>>

          You want me to quote MORE when people can read what he said themselves? I quoted his comment “Franken is a failed comedian!” and then responded directly to that, specific, claim.

          “U.S. District Judge Denny Chin denied Fox’s request for an injunction to block the publication of Franken’s book, characterizing the network’s claim as “wholly without merit, both factually and legally.” During the judge’s questioning, spectators in the court’s gallery frequently laughed at Fox’s case.[5] Franken later joked, “Usually when you say someone was literally laughed out of court, you mean they were figuratively laughed out of court, but Fox was literally laughed out of court.”[6] Three days later, Fox filed papers to drop its lawsuit.”

          • Big Dog says:

            What does the quote have to do with anything (the lawsuit quote)? Franken is not funny. He has anger issue problems and I wish it were I that he attacked so I could have ended his misery.

            Having said that, he is a failed comedian. He is a tax cheat (surprise, a liberal who does not pay taxes) and he is a miserable human being. He attacks those who disagree with him in a manner that is mean spirited and not funny. All well and good but let’s not play games and act indignant when soemone is rough with regard to Obamacare and the rest of this failed administration.

            Keep your adoration of Franken in mind when you lament about how mean someone is being to Barry O.

            • Darrel says:

              Bigd: What does the quote have to do with anything>>

              Sometimes I include topical quotes, no extra charge.

              Bigd: Franken is not funny.>>

              His success, awards, and three #1 best selling books (political satire, meticulously researched) prove otherwise. “Lying Liars” was #1 for six weeks.

              Hey, why aren’t there any successful conservative comedians? Dennis Miller was, then he flipped, and his career fell off a cliff. The folks over at Cluster FOX tried to do a variant of The Daily Show but it died on the spot. Foxworthy is conservative but he rarely talks about politics. Conservatives it seems, don’t even know when they are being made fun of (about half think Colbert is on their side) and apparently they just aren’t funny. I wonder why? Can you name a political satirist that is as successful as Franken? I don’t think so.

              Bigd: He is a tax cheat>>

              I hadn’t heard that one. Do tell.

              Bigd: He attacks those who disagree with him in a manner that is mean spirited and not funny.>>

              Sorry, you just broke the irony meter with that one.

              Have you seen the writings of a fellow named Blake who posts around here? I don’t read them either (sometimes just a peak, bit of a logical car wreck).

              Anyway, I think Franken is hilarious. And perhaps I would know, I’ve read two or three of his books and you haven’t read any.


  29. Big Dog says:

    “A close and contested election does not equal a stolen election.”

    Unless Bush wins…

  30. Big Dog says:

    Darrel and his old crutch of moving the goal posts. When he has no answer he makes that claim.

    I am tired of arguing with you. You will not change my mind and I will not change yours.

    I am not wasting my time playing games with you. You have demonstrated that no matter what is presented you will make false claims or present incomplete information to support your claims.

    Go love on Michael Moore and have fun. If Moore murdered a baby in the middle of the day and caught it on TV and then said he did not do it you would agree with him and say I moved the goal posts if I called him a liar.

    No sense in discussing it because we will never agree.

    • Darrel says:

      Translation: I can’t answer your arguments.

      I didn’t just “say” you moved the goal posts, I showed it. You said one thing, I showed it was false, so you changed your claim. You do this *all the time.*


  31. Big Dog says:

    Wrong, you just don’t understand English.

    I don’t want to argue anymore. I am tired of your banal cut and pastes and the incessant prattle. I don’t believe you, I don’t agree with you and I have no need to argue with you.

    I am tired of answering 50 comments a day with cut and paste boilerplate crap from liberal sites or from some obscure thing you claim is 100% right because you, the great Darrel, said so.

    You are not worth the time it takes to argue with you. I have no need for it. Nothing you say or do will change what I believe. I change based on what I see and what I read and not when it comes from people like you. So why waste the time?

    I figure if I stop arguing with you then you can go back to your circle jerk group.

    BTW, I moved no goal posts. I made it perfectly clear. You have trouble with plain English so you then claim that the posts were moved.

  32. Big Dog says:

    Be nice if the poll had a breakdown by party.

    How do you know your wife has higher approval ratings? Has she been polled?

    Palin is not an idiot. The people who think she is will be in for a surprise.

    Yes, you can make someone look bad with editing or if you are trying. If the media had given that effort to Obama then he would have looked like a fool.

    No worries, I would much rather have Palin as a leader than Obama. She is not a pussy, he is.

    I also note, she was going to be one heartbeat away and she was portrayed as inexperienced. He is the heartbeat and he showed that he is not up to the job.

    The Russians cleaned his clock and now the world knows he is a pussy.

  33. Big Dog says:

    And given that we are now seeing phony absentee ballots (for Democrats of course) we cannot say these groups are above board.

    Let there be voting irregularities and Michael Moore has a camera and is distorting the facts and deceiving people (a lie by omission is still a lie) but when there is rampant fraud on the left it is ignored.

    If ACORN were a right wing advocacy group Moore would be all over them and have made a film about the corruption.

    • Darrel says:

      (a lie by omission is still a lie)

      Really. So every time you post up some comments, and leave information out or fail to mention the counter arguments which refute your position, you are lying by omission.


  34. Big Dog says:

    Franken physically attacked a blogger or radio host at a Republican convention a few years back. He has been known to physically attack people (what did Darrel say about threatening violence).

    I wish I had been the guy he attacked. There would be no Senator Franken, of that you can be assured.

  35. Big Dog says:

    Humor is a matter of taste. I would not buy a Franken book because he would make a profit from it. I could get it from the library but it is not worth the effort. I did not like his work on SNL and I don’t like listening to him.

    He tries to intimidate people and he physically attacks those who get on his nerves. I really do wish I had been the one at the Republican convention. That would have been one whipping I would have taken pleasure in giving.

    Successful conservative comedians:
    Brad Stine
    Evan Sayet
    Bob Hope
    Drew Carey
    Adam Sandler
    Rip Torn
    Red Skelton
    Nick DiPaolo
    Larry the Cable Guy

    There are plenty of political satirists who are as or more successful than Franken. I assume you wanted a conservative one:
    P J O’Rourke

    Dennis Miller is still successful.

    • Darrel says:

      Bigd: I assume you wanted a conservative one:
      P J O’Rourke>>

      So you’ve got one. P.J. O’Rourke. A great comedian by the way but probably not as well known or as successful as Franken. I grew up reading his hilarious material in National Lampoon. Years later he went kind of libertarian but never socially conservative. He roasts religious nuts as hard as anyone.

      “Making fun of born-again christians is like hunting dairy cows with a high powered rifle and scope.” [P.J. O’Rourke]

      Bigd: Dennis Miller is still successful.>>

      When I peruse his wiki page I see a lot of:

      “Game shows
      For one month, Miller hosted Amne$ia for NBC, but due to poor ratings the show was canceled.

      Sports Unfiltered on Versus…
      It debuted on November 6, 2007. The show was canceled after a month.”

      Not being so successful with the comedy he has turned to selling chocolates:

      “Everybody has to sell out at some point to make a living. I’m a family man. I sold out to make an M&M commercial.” –Miller

      And he’s liberal on the social issues:

      “I’m basically a libertarian. I’m pro-gay marriage and pro-choice, but nobody wants to hear all that…. They determine who you are based on the war.” –Miller


  36. Big Dog says:

    Yeah, Miller had some failed ventures. Not like that highly successful radio program Franken had at his profitable station, Air America.

    I don’t really care what Franken does or does not do. I think he is a miserable human and you might have a point about “exposing” conservatives but Franken is as sordid as he claims O’Reilly to be.

    I don’t know how we got off on Franken but you can have him. I predict he will pull a Cynthia McKinney and hit someone in the near future.

    I hope it will be me…