However, the point, I think is, the potential effect that allowing gays to serve openly in the military would have on unit cohesion and ultimately combat effectiveness.

But, do we really have a constitutional right to serve in our military? I think the right we’re talking about is not to be discriminated against. The reason for the discrimination and what national interest is at stake drives the train here. The military discriminates against women. They cannot be part of an infantry unit because they simply cannot do the same things a man can do.

I’m sure gay people can make it through boot camp, do push ups, shoot, and even kill in defense of our country if need be. But allowing people to be gay openly will have an all around negative effect on the military that will eventually trickle down to the infantry units.

Regarding racial integration of the military. Being black is clearly something you cannot choose or change. The debate is still open with regard to homosexuality. I think that is one reason that the argument that history has proven that blacks can serve alongside their white counterparts does not apply as well to openly gay. The dynamics of being openly gay in the American military society is quite different.

I think the pertinent question in making this determination is whether the folks in the military want this change. Sure, we serve the people of this great nation, and we don’t set the rules. However, historically, the primary consideration when it comes to changing things about the military, whether it be the Supreme Court or Congress or the President, has been how it would affect our national security. Our leaders have always placed great weight on this factor, and they still should.

6) Question: Of those of you who would say they would like to have an openly gay military. How many of you have actually served in the military, and also served in a combat unit – an infantry unit -a trigger pulling unit? That is the backbone of our military. That is why we have a military – so we can fight.

That is also the part of our military that is comprised of largely southern and midwest Bible belt males ages 17-24. Do you think we should make the military a forum for a social experiment like this during a time of war because some people feel that gays should not be discriminated against?

I heard somewhere that 65,000 gays are currently serving in our armed forces. That isn’t proof of anything. If we had 65,000 openly gay folks serving in our military, then that would be different. We cannot do this because other countries do it. We are an all voluntary force. (Countries like Israel, given their situation, understandably requires its citizens, both male and female, to serve).

We cannot do it because some idealistic and naive people want it to happen just for the sake of equality.

The military, its lifestyle and all the values espoused and embraced within, its rigid rules and requirements – all revolve around good order and discipline and combat effectiveness. It and its values is not a mirror image of the society it protects. It cannot be completely. Please do not try to make it. Trying to force it, especially in current times will only weaken what is still the greatest military power in the world that protects the greatest nation.

I imagine that there will be a right time for gays to serve openly in the military. It, however, is not now.

Does that make those who think gays should not openly serve bad people or anti-gay? Most certainly not. Does it make those who believe so unprogressive and short sighted and rough? Perhaps, there is a little bit of truth to that. But as I said before, the military is not and should not be a ground for social experimentation. If that makes for a force that is comprised of folks who are a little slower to come around to a new way of thinking, then so be it.

“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” Someone famous.

I personally would like to see the military allow openly gay people. To me its like saying that african americans can’t join because they are black.

Don’t act like gays are innocent. They way they are acting since Prop 8 was defeated is no different. They are trying to force their views with violence.

I bet more guys get murdered in the service for screwing their friend’s wife than for being gay.

There is not a prevalence of this kind of violence (though I think one is too many) but you mentioned 3 out of millions who serve.

You are taking a small number and making it into an everyday occurrence.

I think if we have a draft then people will get in under the rules in place, don’t ask and don’t tell just like they do with people who volunteer.

If you would lie about being gay just to avoid service then who wants you fighting anyway?

Just poking fun at the Air Force.

Though i would argue that fitness and weight are not great indicators in any event. Women have to do fewer items on a PFT to pass than men do. A woman can score higher than a man and have done less of every event. Does her higher score mean she is more physically fit? He can probably carry more weight and do more physical work but she has the higher score.

Women are allowed more body fat than men are. That means a man with the same amount of body fat as a woman will be overweight. Is he in worse shape than she when it comes to doing the job? He might even look better because of the differences in physiology. In Gulf I there were soldiers awaiting discharge for being overweight because overweight soldiers are not fit to fight. When the war broke out they were sent to the Gulf. Is the standard worth something if we change it?

Want to take the stress off the military? Make the ILLEGALS serve. If they serve honorably, make them citizens. Do not let them decide, if they get caught here they go fight. If they do well we reward them with citizenship. How many millions of people would that put in the military?

Showers? In the Isreaeli army they allow homosexuals to shower alone if they so desire. There, problems done. I was at boot camp, we were always rushed yes but there was definitly time for some extra showers. or dare I say, have homosexual showers?

You cant say oh gay guys will hit on me. How do you think females feel? or guys who have gotten advances from women they did not want? The male perspective of being the alpha male would probably come into play here “Well he will think Im hot and rape me.” Do women think that? Physically males are usually stronger than females, but women dont live thier lives fearing men. Why? Because they are intelligent beings.

Personally, I think gays in the military would be a good thing (not in infantry or combat units). Homosexuals could help our stretched military back on its feet and be a good test of the military’s ability to accept others. Hell, if the military cant accept and tolerate its own people, how can the modern grunt get past racism and intolerance and try to respect foreigners.