DID I SAY THAT?

The Resident gave a speech to a Joint Session of Congress last night, during which he decided to change his talking points- which may or may not have been what prompted Rep. Joe Wilson R-SC to yell out what he did- an impromptu shout of “You Lie” directed at the Resident- something many of us at the Town Halls just wish we could do. Joe Wilson is a hero- was he rude? Yes, yes he was; did it need to be said? Yes it did, and should have been said more, even as Hussein began moving the “facts” he uses, going from 47 million people to 30 million people- where did 17 million people go, Mr. Resident? 

Or was that also a lie?

In his speech tonight, the president introduced a new number in the health care debate. Remember all those statements from Democrats, including Barack Obama himself, that 47 million Americans are without health insurance? That’s no longer the operative number. “There are now more than thirty million American citizens who cannot get coverage,” the president said in tonight’s speech.

But on August 10, at a town hall meeting, Obama referred to the “46, 47 million people without health insurance in our country…” And on July 23, he said, “This is not just about the 47 million Americans who don’t have any health insurance at all…”

What’s the difference? Obama appears to be choosing his words carefully. There is a difference between Americans who “cannot get coverage” and Americans who “don’t have any health insurance at all.” The interesting question is why Obama has chosen to downgrade the number from 47 million to 30 million. Look for Democrats to begin using the new figure in making the case for Obamacare.

washingtonexaminer.com

Yea, it’s getting down to the nitty- gritty now, and Hussein needs to begin using some real facts here if he wants to make the case- he spent a bunch of his speech “de- bunking” the alleged lies spread by opponents of his little government “make-over”, the death panel stuff, and the abortion stuff, and the illegal alien stuff- none of which he was able to debunk successfully.


OBAMA: “I will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits either now or in the future. Period.”

THE FACTS: Though there’s no final plan yet, the White House and congressional Democrats already have shown they’re ready to skirt the no-new-deficits pledge.

House Democrats offered a bill that the Congressional Budget Officesaid would add $220 billion to the deficit over 10 years. But Democrats and Obama administration officials claimed the bill actually was deficit-neutral. They said they simply didn’t have to count $245 billion of it — the cost of adjusting Medicare reimbursement rates so physicians don’t face big annual pay cuts.

Their reasoning was that they already had decided to exempt this “doc fix” from congressional rules that require new programs to be paid for. In other words, it doesn’t have to be paid for because they decided it doesn’t have to be paid for.

The administration also said that since Obama already had included the doctor payment in his 10-year budget proposal, it didn’t have to be counted again.

That aside, the long-term prognosis for costs of the health care legislation has not been good.

CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf had this to say in July: “We do not see the sort of fundamental changes that would be necessary to reduce the trajectory of federal health spending by a significant amount.

 

OBAMA: “There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage.”

THE FACTS: Obama time and again has referred to the number of uninsured as 46 million, a figure based on year-old Census data. The new number is based on an analysis by the Kaiser Commission on Medicaid and the Uninsured, which concluded that about two-thirds of Americans without insurance are poor or near poor. “These individuals are less likely to be offered employer-sponsored coverage or to be able to afford to purchase their own coverage,” the report said. By using the new figure, Obama avoids criticism that he is including individuals, particularly healthy young people, who choose not to obtain health insurance.

 

OBAMA: “If you lose your job or change your job, you will be able to get coverage. If you strike out on your own and start a small business, you will be able to get coverage.”

THE FACTS: It’s not just a matter of being able to get coverage. Most people would have to get coverage under the law, if his plan is adopted.

In his speech, Obama endorsed mandatory coverage for individuals, an approach he did not embrace as a candidate.

He proposed during the campaign — as he does now — that larger businesses be required to offer insurance to workers or else pay into a fund. But he rejected the idea of requiring individuals to obtain insurance. He said people would get insurance without being forced to do so by the law, if coverage were made affordable. And he repeatedly criticized his Democratic primary rival, Hillary Rodham Clinton, for proposing to mandate coverage.

“To force people to get health insurance, you’ve got to have a very harsh penalty,” he said in a February 2008debate.

Now, he says, “individuals will be required to carry basic health insurance — just as most states require you to carry auto insurance.”

 

OBAMA: Requiring insurance companies to cover preventive care like mammograms and colonoscopies “makes sense, it saves money, and it saves lives.”

THE FACTS: Studies have shown that much preventive care — particularly tests like the ones Obama mentions — actually costs money instead of saving it. That’s because detecting acute diseases like breast cancer in their early stages involves testing many people who would never end up developing the disease. The costs of a large number of tests, even if they’re relatively cheap, will outweigh the costs of caring for the minority of people who would have ended up getting sick without the testing.

The Congressional Budget Office wrote in August: “The evidence suggests that for most preventive services, expanded utilization leads to higher, not lower, medical spending overall.”

news.yahoo.com

Yes, folks, gather around see the Magnificent Prevaricator, the man who can change his speeches to suit his audience, and change his facts to suit himself.

Gee-  wonder if that’s why Joe Wilson felt compelled to shout “You Lie!”, as the Resident gave the speech where the facts became “flexible” things, malleable, able to become anything the Won wanted them to be.

You go Joe- I wish it had been me- I wouldn’t have been as polite.

Blake

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31 Responses to “DID I SAY THAT?”

  1. Blake says:

    And I just have to add these lies that the Resident said-( how can you tell he’s lying? His lips move).
    http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2009/09/obamas-health-care-speech-furious.html

  2. Blake says:

    Here is a link to a very good post on last night’s speech:
    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/09/024478.php

  3. victoria says:

    I don’t know why I keep having Yahoo as my home page–just habit I guess. But their headline is calling the incident with Joe Wilson as the nights defining moment. Excuse me–I thought the O’s speech was supposed to be the defining moment–supposed to turn the tide and all–you know his outstanding oratorical skills. Joe’s outburst is rallying the Democrats–what a crock. Somebody at Yahoo or somewhere is on crack.

  4. Barbara says:

    It may not have been according to Protocal, but I congratulate Senator Wilson. He, at least, had enough nerve to speak the truth. Everything Obama said was a lie. I’m sure he has never read the bills, so cannot state what is in them. Most of Congress have not read the bills either and did not write them. Obama is trying to get the bill passed and then will come in the back door with changes. Anyone who has health insurance through their employer will not be able to keep it if the employer decides to put the employees in the government’s health care plan. Also, for a President (?) to get angry with those who oppose him, when this is an American right, is really an egotist. He is a good con artist with his speeches and I am tired of seeing his face on TV all the time.

    • Darrel says:

      BRB: “Everything Obama said was a lie.”

      DAR
      When you are going to lie, I guess your strategy is to make it a really big one.

      I would be so impressed, beyond words, if you could give even a single example, which of course you won’t, because you cannot.

      D.

      • Blake says:

        He lied about the illegal aliens not being covered, he lied when he said the government option leads to “More” choice, a REALLY big lie), he “revised” his math, (something he has never been good at) from 47 million to 30 million ( both figures are actually distortions), he lied about the death panels, although they would not be called that. He said that the government would not get in between your doctor and you, then in the next breath, he says there will be a government panel to “oversee” the patient -physician relationship.” That was another lie on his part.

        • Darrel says:

          Oh good, Blake has some examples of supposed “lies.” Let’s see how they hold up.

          BLK: “He lied about the illegal aliens not being covered”>>

          DAR
          Nope. He was exactly right.

          Fact Check:

          “THE FACTS: The House version of the health care bill explicitly prohibits spending any federal money to help illegal immigrants get health care coverage. Illegal immigrants could buy private health insurance, as many do now, and they could also buy into a new government-run insurance plan if Congress creates one. But unlike legal residents, they wouldn’t get federal subsidies to help them. The bill’s exact language: “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully in the United States.” Health care legislation in the Senate is also being crafted to exclude illegal immigrants from coverage.”

          More detailed debunk here:

          http://www.opencongress.org/articles/view/1210-Read-the-Bill-Illegal-Immigrants-Are-NOT-Covered

          BLK: “he lied when he said the government option leads to “More” choice,”>>

          DAR
          Obviously true. Instead of only having the option of the private for profit system, people would have one additional choice. These terrifies the insurance industry so much they have dropped 1/3 of a billion in the last eight months to buy influence and misinform the gullible. They do this because they don’t want you to find out that they aren’t needed and actually get in the way of good care and waste/cost the system $100’s billions (paperwork).

          All of our peer countries figured this out years ago, and while covering everyone for less and getting better results, they also offer FAR more choice than US. Most of them also have MORE competition.

          BLK: “he “revised” his math”>>

          DAR
          He quoted a different source which referenced only Americans. This took away your “illegal alien” canard which was never accurate anyway (no one has a foggy idea how many there are).

          BLK: “he lied about the death panels”>>

          DAR
          This is astonishingly dishonest and irresponsible on your part. The fellow that introduced this amendment? Republican Johnny Isakson. What does he say?

          “Anyone who would interpret an end-of-life directive or a living will as euthanasia is nuts.”

          He’s talking to you.

          LINK

          BLK: “[Obama] said that the government would not get in between your doctor”>>

          DAR
          Exactly right again. Right now, your doctor has to fight with your insurance company (and their horde of billing clerks) for every little procedure. Almost 20% to 30% of claims are denied (appeals lowers this some).
          Sensible countries would never stand for this nonsense. All basic, standard care, is covered. No arguments. No BS. Anything else is absurd. Our system is absurd.

          BLK: “he says there will be a government panel to “oversee” the patient -physician relationship.”>>

          DAR
          You’ll have to be more specific on that one. Perhaps this refers to end of life care where, of course, we would want to have some oversight so there is no funny business.

          Your examples of supposed lies weren’t very good but thanks for trying.

          D.

        • Blake says:

          Nope- I didn’t lie about the illegals being covered- neither is it a lie to say that abortions would be covered in this bill. Your whole premise hangs on the “affordability credits”, but the truth is that if they were to come to the emergency room, they would still be treated with federal dollars. Its what they’ve always done- what would change?

          “Government options lead to more choice”- that is a lie only a moron could actually believe. There has NEVER been a government program that reduced inefficiencies, and this would not be the first.

          He DID lie about the “death panels”- oh, I know, they wold not be called that- that would be astonishingly bad PR, even for an a**hole who hires communists- but that IS what they would be, in essence denying care based on your worthiness and “profitability” to the state- in other words, can they recoup their investment in terms of taxes- if not, you get to go home , like little Nikki.

          By the same token, the government WOULD get in between your doctor and you in deciding what this “panel” considers to be the most “cost- effective treatment”.

        • Darrel says:

          BLK: “if they were to come to the emergency room, they would still be treated with federal dollars. Its what they’ve always done- what would change?”>>

          DAR
          Oops, you just dropped your pants and revealed that you aren’t complaining that Obama is changing the system to cover illegal immigrants. Rather, you’re just pissed that he isn’t using this healthcare bill to deal with an immigration reform issue and deny illegals in a way that they haven’t been denied before.

          A different issue obviously.

          Now you can pull your pants back up.

          D.

  5. Darrel says:

    OBAMA: “There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage.”

    “By using the new figure, Obama avoids criticism that he is including individuals, particularly healthy young people, who choose not to obtain health insurance.”

    DAR
    And how is it a bad thing to refer specifically to a study that shows how many “Americans” are without insurance?

    Quote: “Studies have shown that much preventive care — particularly tests like the ones Obama mentions — actually costs money instead of saving it.”

    DAR
    Stupidity on stilts. Notice the spin “much.” Much more preventative care saves money and saves lives. Specifically colonoscopy. As he “mentioned.”

    And this is supposed to be a link one can check?

    “news.yahoo.com”

    D.

    • Blake says:

      Darrel, you really should read the powerline blog have linked to above- it does debunk much of what your Dear Commisar said.

    • Blake says:

      Darrel- if you get a colonoscopy and it shows nothing, did you waste money? That answer is subjective, but DID YOU SPEND MONEY is not- that is a fact.
      Therefore, if nothing was found, we can say that you spent money for no reason.

      • Randy says:

        That is like saying checking the oil in your car is a waste of time because most of the time when you do check, it will be fine. You might as well just wait for the engine to seize up and deal with it then.

      • Darrel says:

        BLK: “if nothing was found, we can say that you spent money for no reason.”>>

        DAR
        Randy beat me to it with the oil example. I was going to use this example:

        Hey Blake, if you look both ways before you cross the street, and there aren’t any cars coming, did you “waste your time” in checking?

        According to your logic, yes.

        D.

  6. victoria says:

    Here is one example for you Dar that you asked for from Barbara. I don’t know why I am doing this because you and your ilk must come from outerspace somewhere because I cannot believe that you actually were born and raised and educated in the US.

    To stand there and tell us, with a straight face, that he can insure millions more people without adding to the already skyrocketing deficit, is world-class chutzpa and an insult to anyone’s intelligence. To do so after an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office has already showed this to be impossible reveals the depths of moral bankruptcy behind the glittering words.
    Even those who can believe that Obama can conjure up the money through eliminating “waste, fraud and abuse” should ask themselves where he is going to conjure up the additional doctors, nurses, and hospitals needed to take care of millions more patients.

    If he can’t pull off that miracle, then government-run medical care in the United States can be expected to produce what government-run medical care in Canada, Britain, and other countries has produced– delays of weeks or months to get many treatments, not to mention arbitrary rationing decisions by bureaucrats.

    • Darrel says:

      VIC: I cannot believe that you actually were born and raised and educated in the US.”>>

      DAR
      Well, had you been paying any attention at all, you would already know I was born, raised and educated in Canada.

      VIC: that he can insure millions more people without adding to the already skyrocketing deficit, is world-class chutzpa>>

      DAR
      No. You don’t know what you are talking about. All of our peer countries, wealthy countries, every one of them, cover all of their populations and they all do so for a much lower percentage of GDP. There are a long list of well understood reasons for this and I have covered them many times. Get informed.

      VIC: “…where he is going to conjure up the additional doctors, nurses, and hospitals needed to take care of millions more patients.”>>

      DAR
      I know, lets teach the completely useless 470,000 desk jockey billing clerks how to do something useful.

      Your question is idiotic and reveals again, that you don’t even know where to begin. The US HAS adequate medical staff but even if it didn’t, the private sector would provide just as it does in ALL of our peer countries.

      Vic: government-run medical care in the United States>>

      DAR
      No one has proposed government run health care in the US. No one. Stop passing along lies.

      VIC: can be expected to produce what government-run medical care in Canada,>>

      DAR
      Canada doesn’t have government run health care. It has government run insurance. Doctors and hospitals are private.

      And you should be so lucky. Canada has mediocre health care by world standards but it beats the US in every comprehensive analysis, easily. I wish it wasn’t so, I wish I could brag about the US system, but I can’t. It’s an embarrassment and a disgrace.

      VIC: Britain,>>

      DAR
      Britain does have government run health care (again DOC’s are PRIVATE). And at 1/3 the cost it has recovery rates from most major diseases that are better than the US (The Healing of America, pg. 104).

      VIC: delays of weeks or months to get many treatments,>>

      DAR
      30 million Americans don’t get delays of “weeks or months”, they get “go home and die.” This is immoral. This is about to end.

      VIC: not to mention arbitrary rationing decisions by bureaucrats.>>

      DAR
      In the US, if you are lucky, you get to have arbitrary rationing decisions by a corporation that makes more money if they deny your care.

      And they are really, really good at it. Wal-Street requires that they be very good at it.

      If you are one of the 30 million that aren’t in this “lucky” group, you get the “go home and die.” This is unchristian, immoral and it is about to end.

      D.
      ——————-
      “Jesus is a healer.”

      Exerpt:

      “Healing and teaching were Jesus of Nazareth’s most characteristic activities. Healer-Evangelist Graham Jones documents that nearly 40 percent of the narrative verses in the New Testament are about healing. Twenty-six of the 35 miracles of Jesus were healings (bible.org).

      Jesus healed anyone, neighbor or foreigner. Once he healed 10 lepers, the castoffs of the health care system of Jesus’ day. Of the 10, only one returned to thank Jesus: a Samaritan – the first century version of an illegal alien.

      The disciples continued Jesus’ work of healing. The Acts of the Apostles tells 28 stories of healing through the ministries of the disciples. The climactic vision of the heavenly Jerusalem in the book of Revelation sees a tree growing at the center of the city, with leaves for the healing of the nations.

      Healing and health care is something that Christians support. That is why so many churches and denominations have made statements supporting the current discussion about how to improve our health care system.

      For Christians, it is immoral that 50 million of our neighbors have no health insurance while profitable insurance companies make millions of dollars denying care.”

      –Lowell Grisham is an Episcopal priest from Fayetteville, Arkansas.

      The rest of his excellent article here.

      • Blake says:

        Just why should insurance companies not make money? That statement is idiotic at the best- this is not a hobby for them, they are supposed to make money. They do this by assuming risk for the insured- most of the time it works out ok for them, sometimes not so much, as Katrina and Ike has shown.
        And where do you get the 50 million amount? This Lowell Grisham is an idiot- be sure to tell him I said so- the Lord hates a liar- remember, “Love the sinner, Hate the sin.”

      • Blake says:

        I am sure all of those billing jockeys will be able to perform an appendectomy- it is physically impossible to dump oh, say- 30 million people into a system that has no increase in doctors, nurses, or hospitals WITHOUT rationing, or standing in line like Canadians.
        And if the government caps the salary of Doctors, well, where did the incentive go to be a physician? Out the window- that’s where.
        Why would anybody feel good about having the heavy hand of government around their neck? I know I would not.

      • Big Dog says:

        I like how the concern is for 30 million people who go home and die (that is a huge exaggeration and did you change from 47 million like Obama) yet they worry not about aborted children.

        There are about 10 million people who truly cannot afford insurance. We do not need to overhaul the entire system to cover them.

        Government does not belong in business. Show me in the Constitution where it says so.

        And you can continue to spout the inaccuracies about our peer nations but is America were so bad you and millions like you would have stayed home.

        • Darrel says:

          Bigd: “the concern is for 30 million people who go home and die”>>

          DAR
          Please be accurate. The 30 million refers to Americans without insurance, not the number of people who “go home and die.”

          Bigd: did you change from 47 million like Obama)>>

          DAR
          The 30m number and 47m number refer to measurements of different groups. It’s entirely appropriate to refer to one or the other while specifying which one you are referring to.

          Bigd: We do not need to overhaul the entire system to cover them.”>>

          DAR
          Incidentally, aside from the waste, the crappy outcomes and the 18,000 Americans dying per year from lack of access, fixing the cost of our health care is NOT an option. If the costs are not controlled, and in a big way, the cost of medicare will in a few short years completely swamp/devour the budget. There is no controversy about this. If you didn’t know this I encourage you to get educated about the US debt. I can post the links again.

          Bigd: Government does not belong in business.>>

          DAR
          Then why don’t we have our Fire stations and Police run for profit? Would you like me to explain to you why? It’s the same thing. The idea that basic, necessary medical care should be a huge multi-billion dollar cash cow that makes money on withholding care from citizens is absurd, immoral and something every civilized country on the planet has discarded. Except for the US, with disastrous results.

          I am going to type the following in by hand for you from a book I just read. Please read it and then tell me if you are proud of your country.

          ***
          “Prologue: A Moral Question

          If Nikki WHite had been a resident of any other rich country, she would be alive today.

          Around the time she graduated from college, Monique A. “Nikki” White contracted systemic lupus erythematosis; that’s a serious disease, but on that modern medicine knows how to manage. If this bright, feisty, dazzling young woman had lived in, say Japan–the world’s second-richest nation–or Germany (third richest), or Britain, France, Italy, Spain, Canada, Sweden, etc., the health care systems there would have given her the standard treatment for lupus, and she could have lived a normal life span. But Nikki White was a citizen of the world’s richest country, the United States of America. Once she was sick, she couldn’t get health insurance. Like tens of millions of her fellow Americans, she had too much money to qualify for health care under welfare, but too much money to qualify for health care under welfare, but too little money to pay for the drugs and doctors she needed to stay alive. She spent the last months of her life frantically writing letters and filling out forms, pleading for help. When she died, Nikki WHite was thirty-two years old.

          “Nikki didn’t die from lupus,” Dr. Amylyn Crawford told me. “Nikki died from complications of the failing American health care system. It was a lack of access to health care that killed Nikki White.”

          –The Healing of America: The global quest for better, cheaper, and fairer health care, pg. 1

          More details here, if you can stomach it.

          View a picture of her here.

          D.

        • Blake says:

          Yes, D- I am proud of my country- sorry you are not- there are always people who aren’t dealt with right, but there are also good and inspiring stories about our system.
          You cherry- pick your examples to suit your argument- that doesn’t necessarily make them valid.

        • Darrel says:

          BLK: “You cherry- pick your examples to suit your argument-“>>

          DAR
          I don’t have to cherry pick. According to the National Academy of Sciences, the most prestigious science institute in the United States, Nikki White is just one of eighteen thousand deaths per year due to lack of health insurance.

          That’s six 9/11’s, per year.

          I think America can do better than let people like Nikki White die.

          Do you think American can do better than this?

          D.

        • Blake says:

          Darrel. sometimes people die- that’s just a fact- and while we strive to improve things, this doesn’t mean we need to switch to a system that will have more deaths per capita, and that is just what Hussein is trying to do.

        • Darrel says:

          BLK: “sometimes people die- that’s just a fact-”

          DAR
          Hey, sounds like a good title for the republican health care plan. Run on that.

          • Big Dog says:

            Be a more accurate description of the Obama plan.

            But to be more accurate, all times people die. It eventually happens. Life is a sexually transmitted terminal condition.

            How would you know a good title for the Republican plan? Democrats will not allow it to be seen and will not debate it.

  7. victoria says:

    You know DAR–it is obvious you have read the Bible–but you have no clue what it means.

    • Darrel says:

      Well it’s too bad you don’t live near by and can’t come and have a Bible study with me and teach me what it means.

      One of us would learn a lot.

      D.
      ———————
      “If there are objective (absolute) moral values given to us in the Bible then why is there no single important social/moral issue on which sincere Bible believers agree? People who find “moral absolutes” in the revelation of a deity have never agreed on what those absolutes are. Take any crucial moral issue of the day and you will find devout, God-fearing, Bible-believing Christians coming down on opposite sides:

      * capital punishment
      * abortion
      * divorce
      * physician-assisted suicide
      * gay rights
      * women’s rights
      * corporal punishment
      * war (hawks vs. doves)
      * birth control
      * fetal tissue research
      * cloning
      * separation of church and state
      * slavery (especially in the 19th century)
      * and so on . . .

      Former minister Dan Barker observed:

      The apostle Paul alleged that the biblical deity is “not the author of confusion,” yet never has a single book caused more confusion or divisiveness than the Bible. If the Bible gives us absolute moral guidance, then where is it? It seems no one really knows what these “objective values” are.”

      http://fayfreethinkers.com/tracts/moralvalues.shtml

      • Blake says:

        The Bible does give that guidance, but since it is fallible humans who interpret the Bible,( and of course, there are those who use the Bible for monetary gain, or power), the interpretation of the Bible is misconstrued- that is not the Bible’s fault, but that of venal and immoral man.
        One could say the Devil made him do it.