Dear Leader Obama Set To Address The Youth

Barack Obama will be giving another address on Tuesday September 8th but this time the target is every child in an American school. Barack Obama is set to be broadcast to every school in the country. This kind of reminds me of the dictators who address people who have no opition with regard to attending. Dear Leader Obama will give his speech to the school children and maybe he can get them to join the Hitler Obama youth corps where they can listen in on the conversations of mom and dad and report them if they oppose health care overhaul.

There is an agenda, or to do list for the little children to use in order to be worthy of listening to the Dear Leader. Here is a list of what the future Obama for America youth can do.

Why is Barack Obama beaming his big ears into the classrooms? Are schools required to participate or is this an option? What happens if certain children do not want to participate?

There is no significant event taking place that would require this kind of event. This is not like when man landed on the moon or when a former president is buried. There is no major item taking place that justifies this.

This is unprecedented and involves what I consider an intrusion into the classrooms across the country. Our children go to school and should be free from these kinds of interruptions especially when there is no good reason for this to take place.

What is the purpose? Is it indoctrination of our children at a young age while they are held captive by members of the teacher’s unions (who are in bed with people like Obama)?

I don’t know but I think this is wrong and I would have a problem with this kind of thing no matter who the White House occupant was. If there is no significant event justifying the appearance of Obama then one has to question the motive.

He might want to extol the virtues of a good education but that could have been done with a video that is played when the school felt it appropriate.

No, he has a captive audience and he can use the children to send the messages about his agenda home. The potential for abuse is too great and after the event is too late to act if what is said is inappropriate.

If I had school aged children I would keep them home on the 8th.

UPDATE: Looks like the Obama Administration had a hand in helping to craft the assignment for the school children. The guidance has since been changed:

The Obama administration is rethinking its course recommendations for students ahead of President Obama’s address to the the nation’s schoolchildren next week, rewriting its suggestions to teachers for student assignments on how to “help the president,”

The Washington Times reported Thursday that presidential aides acknowledged they helped the U.S. Education Department write the suggested assignments, which stirred criticism by many who say Obama is trying to indoctrinate the education system. Fox News

This is one reason that the idea is inapporopriate. There is politics written all over this though I suspect Obama will tone it down and use caution. The intent has been discovered so he will be watched even more closely.

Big Dog

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96 Responses to “Dear Leader Obama Set To Address The Youth”

  1. Adam says:

    Foolish man. Don’t you see? Obama will implant a hypnotic suggestion while the children are watching this and at the right moment he will awaken a massive army of fascists to overthrow our democracy and install a “Oligarhy” with Bill Ayers at the top.

  2. Adam says:

    I guess it depends on what you mean by off limits. I don’t really see how addressing America’s school children has anything to do with the status of his own children. You should clarify what you mean.

    Beck is a moron and when he goes to the crazy board he better have his facts and spelling in order or he’s going to look like an even bigger crying buffoon than he already is.

    Personally I hate Keith Olbermann but to call him a “non-Factor” is pretty silly and not grounded in reality. Just because he rates less than #1 does not mean he’s not a significant voice on TV and he’s the reason MSNBC didn’t tank years ago.

    • Mike Radigan says:

      Adam, it was a joke. A non-Factor as opposite of the O’Reilly Factor. I thought that was obvious. :)

      • Big Dog says:

        I got it…

        You can have your facts straight and still misspell a word. If Olbermann is the savior of MSNBC then they are in real trouble.

        But that does not negate the fact that the guy at your link was banging on Beck for misspelling a word when the guy gave an incorrect definition of a word.

        You can call Beck a moron but he makes good points and he has pointed out problems from both sides of the aisle. Olberman changes positions depending upon the party of the politician.

    • Blake says:

      He’s an insignificant screech on whatever network- one of those nbcs- hes on.

  3. Adam says:

    And I didn’t really see an incorrect definition there. What’s wrong?

  4. Big Dog says:

    An oligarchy is not based on any particular political ideology. He specifically stated that by definition it was a politically right entity. It is not because it is not party specific.

  5. Adam says:

    Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure right-wing in that sense is not the left vs. right as in liberal vs. conservative political ideology.

    It is more like left vs. right as in collectivism vs. authoritarianism in the psychological sense. An oligarchy is a form of authoritarianism, which is for the most part defined as right-wing but not in the sense that it is conservative.

    • Big Dog says:

      The definition mentions neither issue and only indicates that it is based upon a small group of elites ruling and raising their children to rule when they pass on.

      The ruling elites can be of either ideology.

      Such states are often controlled by politically powerful families whose children are heavily conditioned and mentored to be heirs of the power of the oligarchy.Oligarchies have been tyrannical throughout history, being completely reliant on public servitude to exist. Although Aristotle pioneered the use of the term as a synonym for rule by the rich, for which the exact term is plutocracy, oligarchy is not always a rule by wealth, as oligarchs can simply be a privileged group. Some city-states from Ancient Greece were oligarchies.

      One could easily make the argument that relying on public servitude to exist is a left wing philosophy.

      The point is, neither ideology is mentioned and the definition does not specifically point one way or the other.

    • Blake says:

      Collectivism is just “organized anarchy”, if you will, proven not to work any better than socialism or Fascism did.

  6. Schatzee says:

    I would keep my children home as well on that day. This is not education but indoctrination. The education they are getting is being dumbed down enough; we certainly don’t need to waste time with this kind of political prattle.

    It’s global warming part II – now kids can go home and harass their parents about what BO says to them at school. GROSS

  7. Adam says:

    You are correct in your definition but my point is simply that the meaning of right-wing and left-wing go much deeper than political ideology. I must again stress that authoritarianism is considered to be “right-wing” and an Oligarchy is a form of authoritarianism. The author was not saying Oligarchies are conservative.

  8. Adam says:

    Actually, the author probably is trying to say they are conservative because he is attacking Beck. So in a sense your argument against the author is correct but in another sense the author’s statement that “Oligarchies are by definition right-wing autocracies” is not incorrect.

    But we can infer the real point behind the statement which is that Beck is wrong to accuse liberals of making an Oligarchy since Oligarchies are right-wing. That is indeed wrong if we are to take him that way, but I digress…

  9. Adam says:

    As far as what Obama says as being indoctrination does anybody have an idea what Obama is going to say and how that is actually indoctrinating anything?

    • Blake says:

      Yes- if you look above at the links I provided, you can see the original “talking points” and the revised ones, after the WH figured it smelled too blatantly of propaganda.

        • Adam says:

          I looked at all your links. I can’t wait for Obama to give his speech and all your arguments and paranoia to fall flat again, not that you acknowledge such a thing each time.

          • Big Dog says:

            I acknowledge when I am wrong. However, correctness is often a matter of how we interpret things. You always side with Obama. If he cut a child’s head off and I said it was wrong you would say he had a good reason for doing it.

            I think I wrote that he might just talk about the need to do well in school. However, there is no doubt that this was political as evidenced by the guidelines. It might not sound that way when he gives the speech but the intent has been shown.

            • Adam says:

              Since when is a president being political big news? Newsflash: Obama has an agenda like every president has had, and the way to achieve the agenda is through politics.

              Obama has goals for education, he has goals for health care, he has goals for the economy. He cannot achieve his objectives completely removed from the public and he’s proven to be a very vocal president who likes to speak to the public and clear the air on his furthering agenda.

              But to suggest Obama is going to indoctrinate our children by speaking to them? Get real. That’s just another branch of the crazy tree…

        • Blake says:

          Well, now that we have had to point out to you libs that he was going to begin the brain washing, perhaps you will see him for what he is- clumsy, and inept.
          I am SO glad that he is having such a good time vacationing on the taxpayer’s dime, aren’t you?

        • Willton says:

          Right, Blake, because Bush 43 never took a vacation on the government’s dime. Those trips to Crawford, TX were clearly diplomacy related. [rolleyes]

  10. Darrel says:

    It’s a pretty pathetic state of affairs when it is considered inappropriate for the duly elected president of the country to simply address the students of the nation.


    • Adam says:

      Duly elected? Hardly! ACORN stole 8,538,559 votes away from McCain with faulty voter registration forms…

      • Blake says:

        You are probably closer to the truth than you’ve been in years, Adam.

        • Adam says:

          The fact that you would move toward agreeing with something that is irrational and sarcastic reveals a lot about you.

        • Blake says:

          Yes- that you unintentionally told a truth- I know you didn’t mean to, but you will have to be re-indoctrinated now- its for your own good- you will thank us later for the lobotomy you are about to receive.

    • Adam says:

      But no, Darrel is right. It’s pathetic and sad that conservatives have to be so divisive that they’ll turn an address designed to encourage children to see the importance of education into paranoid delusions of indoctrination and brainwashing. There’s a screw loose up there in your heads, conservatives, and I hope you all get it checked out before it endangers your health. God help you if you don’t have health insurance to cover it…

    • Blake says:

      It’s a pretty sad state of affairs when Nobama actually addresses the children, because THEY DON’T VOTE, and they have no say in what happens, and it is up to the parent to guide the children, not the Pretender in Chief.
      Ignacious Loyola once said, “give me the little children, and they shall be the Church’s forever”- he was speaking of indoctrination, and he was correct in that assessment-
      Keep your children away from the political pedophile!

    • Blake says:

      Simply Address the Students in a Compulsory attendance way, with homework for our “Dear Leader”? I don’t think so, comrade.

  11. Adam says:

    I like what Politifact wrote about what one Republican in Florida claimed about the speech:

    We didn’t realize studying hard was socialist ideology


  12. Big Dog says:

    He will certainly say that they need to study hard and learn but let us see what else is in there.

    The whole point is WHY? Why the interruption?

  13. Big Dog says:

    It is a pathetic state of affairs when he interrupts the school day to do so. Tape it and the school can play it when appropriate.

  14. Big Dog says:

    God help you if you need the government insurance to take care of it. You could be a health care provider and know lots of doctors.

    You all miss the point. Why is he doing this? What is the motive? If one little political issue is mentioned he will have done a disservice.

    The I Pledge video was played in a school today and it contained items parents objected to being in the school. One item of politics and he is wrong.

    The whole issue should never come up. Why does Dear Leader need to address all the kids?

    That is the issue. There are ways to tell them to do well in school. Try a TV commercial. God knows he spends enough money on commercials for his agenda (he or his surrogates) and the WH certainly has a budget for that.

    If not, ABC will give him free air time.

    • Darrel says:

      Bigd: “God help you if you need the government insurance to take care of it.”>>

      More like, god help you if you don’t:

      Does the government actually run the BEST healthcare?.

      And don’t forget:

      “The fact is that the government-run U.S. Veterans healthcare system is now considered signficantly more efficient than private-sector healthcare according to:

      The New England Journal of Medicine (“Effect of the Transformation of the Veterans Affaris Health Care System on the Quality of Care, May 29, 2003)

      The Annals of Internal Medicine (“Diabetes Care Quality in the Veterans Affairs Health Care System and Commercial Managed Care: The TRIAD Study,” August 17, 2004)

      U.S. News & World Report (America’s Best Hospitals, Military Might, July 18 2005);

      The American Journal of Managed Care (“The Veterans Health Administration: Quality, Value, Accountability, and Information as Transforming Strategies for Patient-Centered Care,” 2004,10; part2);

      Washington Monthly (“The Best Care Anywhere,” January/February 2005)

      The Washington Post (“Revamped Veterans Health Care Now a Model,” August 22, 2005).

      You know, this is something about team America that you could, and should, actually be proud of!

      Maybe some day.

      • Blake says:

        As recently as a year ago, rats were running around Walter Reed Hospital- that’s NOT the best care- and that’s whatwe are giving or soldiers- magine what’s in store for the rest of us.
        Darrel, were you in on that e- mail from OFA? Probably-
        you’re in the class of useful idiot here.

  15. Adam says:

    Well, it would be hardly fun at all if Obama did everything just as all his detractors thought he should. Heaven forbid Obama, President of the United States, not push the envelope, not do things differently.

    I’m sure McCain would have taped that bad boy like you want. Maybe on a reel-to-reel even. He could mail it in to each school. They’d project it on the side of the gym wall and everything. It wouldn’t even need sound really. McCain was born before the Talkies anyway…

    Education is perfect in every way. There’s no excuse whatsoever for trying something new and different.

    • Big Dog says:

      It is nice of you to mock McCain and his age and the generation from which he came. It was a generation that fought many enemies and kept us safe. It was a generation that knew what selfless service was and how to tackle problems without some new fancy gadget. His generation allowed twerps from your generation to live in freedom and use your new gizmos.

      Gizmos that were conceived and invented by the people of my generation.

      So before you discuss this in those terms think about how you mocked a true American hero.

      You displayed ageism and you should be ashamed of yourself for that.

      And you talk about pushing an envelope, was he invited? Did the students have an option. Can they opt out? I know mine would…

      • Adam says:

        Ageism? If there’s one thing Republicans are good at these days it’s faking outrage. Ageism! How outrageous!

        I just like that you keep trying to put Obama in a box and when he doesn’t fit you freak out and start dialing up the fake outrage. Obama is gonna indoctrinate our kiddies! Hitler! Nazis! Oh noes!

        Maybe you’ve been out of school too long to remember how school is but where I’m from we weren’t given many options or choices or things we could opt out of. Then again I grew up in a red state…

        But frankly when I was in school I was excited to see the president speak. What on earth are you so scared Obama is going to say or do that you would dial up all this nonsense?

        • Darrel says:

          Oh my gosh! McCain is old? Who knew?

        • Blake says:

          You are such a fool, Adam- I guess because the socialists teaching our kids these days omit history so people won’t recognize the mistakes our new Socialist government is making- they are the same mistakes the old “progressives” made in the 20s and 30s and 40s.
          I guess that they do not want anyone to see just how close our government has become to Fascism – just a useful idiot.

        • Adam says:

          I’d rather be the useful form than what we see in you…

        • Blake says:

          OOOH- Adam thinks he’s useful- perhaps as compost- just a freakin’ commie, like Darrel who has a lotta quit in him.
          They are all for Hussein, until they finally wake up and have to beg us for help.

        • Blake says:

          You can’t put Nobama in a box because the ears won’t fit. ohmygosh, I must be an “earist”.

  16. Big Dog says:

    Adam, I am not afraid of anything. I thought I made that clear to you before. Nothing scare me. You watched a president as did some schools. A nationwide every school address is strange and begs many questions. When I see the text of what he says I will let you know how it went and whether it was wrong or not.

    As for school, I went to private school for part of the time and we were not interrupted by trivial things like a president wanting to wish us well.

    When I was in High School I did not do anything that I did not want to do.

  17. Big Dog says:

    Darrell, the VA is not the best run anything. I don’t care what they say, ask the vets and they will tell you. The VA has huge wastes, long waits, delays in care and cost overruns that are hidden in other budgets.

    You do not know what you are talking about in this area. I don’t know how many VA hospitals you have been in but I bet it was not many and you would not be qualified to assess it anyway.

    I have been in a more than a few and I know a lot of soldiers who get treated there as well and many doctors and nurses who work there.

    They know the horror stories.

    So while some groups try to tout VA care as wonderful so they can get government health care passed, let’s take the word of the folks who have to use it.

    And you morons on the left were the ones all crying about the military health care system and how horrible it was when Bush was president.

    Like you said, best not to talk when you know so little about something.

    • Darrel says:

      Bigd: you would not be qualified to assess it anyway.>>

      And neither are you.

      Bigd: They know the horror stories.>>

      Anecdotes. Rubbish. I appeal to extensive scientific analysis conducted by experts trained to measure such things and you have stories you could tell. You lose.


    • Darrel says:

      Speaking of hypocrites, wow.

      GOPers Decrying “Socialized Medicine” Go To Govt. Hospital For Surgeries.


      “Republicans in Congress have raised the specter of a bloated, “socialized,” bureaucrat-run nightmare of a health care system… yet… when medical crisis hit close to home, many of these same officials turned to a government-run hospital for their own intensive care and difficult surgeries.”


      • Blake says:

        Well, yes, because their “Govt. healthcare” package is gold- plated, and they get the best doctors, not like our vets- oh no- that is really cherry- picking, and it is not like the Demmies don’t use the same plan.

  18. Adam says:

    But again this shows you the bottom of the barrel is being scraped to spread fear about Obama. It’s so pathetic that it’s hilarious to watch. The paranoid delusions of sore loser conservatives are better than anything that’s going to premier on TV in September…

    • Blake says:

      Then keep watching- we are going to derail this Obaminable healthscare thing, and then we are going to reclaim our rights.

      • Adam says:

        What rights have you lost?

        • Blake says:

          I can count at LEAST four of our amendments under attack right now by this administration- the first, the second, the fourth, and the tenth- there are probably more, but these four are under the most fire right now. We are set to lose these rights by a commie Resident that deceived an American public who did not LISTEN to what he said, an American public who has been grossly deceived by the teachers who taught revisionist history, if they taught history at all, and a public who still cannot believe that someone this evil would actually exist in this country.
          But he does, and I heard his speeches, and listened to the words, and I could not believe that ANYONE would actually vote for that POS.
          We should just refer to him as POSOTUS.
          That would be accurate.

        • Adam says:

          I voted for him and I’d vote again just in your honor.

        • Blake says:

          Well, thanx to ACORN, you will probably be able to vote twice or more.

  19. Big Dog says:

    Yes D and I am supposed to accept your ancedotal Canadian health care stuff as fact.

    You are wrong. What were the methods used? Who did they talk to and what were the outcomes delivered? Did they assess the entire military system and lump it together or did they limit it to the VA?

    There is plenty of information about problems in the VA system and your Democrats loved pointing them out when Bush was president. now that Obama is in there, it is all peachy keen?

    I think not.

    What is the agenda of the organizations and how does what they found square with what others have found?

    • Darrel says:

      Bigd: am supposed to accept your ancedotal Canadian health care stuff as fact.>>

      Not anecdotal. Again:

      “The most comprehensive study that was ever under taken on the two health care systems, the US and Canada’s was done jointly by Harvard University and McMasters University:

      Overall, 14 of the 38 studies showed better outcomes in Canada, while only 5 favored the U.S. The remaining 19 studies showed equivalent or mixed results in the two nations. When the studies were combined statistically, the mortality rate was 5% lower in Canada.”


      Canada gets better results, for 1/3 less cost, covers everyone, has no bankruptcies, no unemployment gaps, no 20,000 dying per year from lack of access and of course higher satisfaction. Many other countries, about 30, beat the US too. The US system is a disgrace and immoral.

      Bigd: What were the methods used? Who did they talk to and what were the outcomes delivered?>>

      If you had READ the actual article you would know this already.

      If you weren’t so devoted to your irrational ideology you would be able to read such an article and feel a source of PRIDE for your country. Instead, you will find reasons, completely bogus reasons, to try and bash America’s success in this regard. It’s pathetic.


  20. Big Dog says:

    Yeah, big hypocrites. They are elite and pay for the priveledge of going to a premier hospital. No one made claims that premier hospitals would exist only that government run health care would lead to rationing and substandard care for those who are not well connected.

    Members of Congress are well connected and will always be treated at the best hospitals.

    Does this hospital make money or does it not worry because taxpayers foot the bill. Unlike places where owners are held accountable, the government ones just take more money from taxpayers.

    This is elitism and nothing more. Walter Reed has a floor that is set up for VIPs (like members of Congress) and it costs nearly a million dollars a year to maintain though it hardly ever has patients. It has its own chef and fancy rooms.

    This is because taxpayers foot the bill for the elitists. No right thinking person would believe that the average person will get this or that it will stop for the elite.

  21. Adam says:

    On the issue of “czars” let me give you a breakdown of the kind of people that are considered “czars” for instance by Taxpayers for Common Sense.

    In their list of 32 “czars”, 15 are appointed without confirmation, 9 are appointed and confirmed by the senate, 5 are appointed by a cabinet member without confirmation, and 2 I could not verify. So while you would be correct to say that most are not confirmed by the Senate and this is nothing that Bush didn’t do, when you say “none” are confirmed or vetted you are wrong. You and Blake are both wrong.

    Ironically two of the “czars” Blake for instance has demonized on this site are Sunstein and Holdren who were both Senate confirmed.

    • Blake says:

      Actually Sunstein has yet to be confirmed. And if you were to grade their jobs in terms of “importance” to POSOTUS’ agenda, the ones who are not confirmed, but appointed hold more power- the exceptions would be Sunstein and Holdren.

      • Adam says:

        I just fail to see the evidence that any of these people act without the approval of the cabinet they are under or the POTUS and that any of these people somehow act outside the US Constitution. Hating their opinions and the job they’ll do is one thing, saying they are unconstitutional is something altogether different.

        • Blake says:

          No Adam- being “Unconstitutional” means acting outside of the laws as they are written, or deliberately evading the intent of the law through a loophole.
          Most, if not all of the Resident’s “Laws” are of this variety, as are many of his appointments.
          Take Vannie Jones-please- I doubt this communist, marxist, rabble-rousing, radical was vetted by the FBI- if so , they did a really crappy job. He should be nowhere near the government.

  22. Big Dog says:

    I believe I said i did not know what kind of vetting process they went through or if they even were. How can I know without being there when it is done?

  23. Blake says:

    Perhaps the indoctrination of our children is ONE OF HIS GOALS- to use your terms. You are right, he is very vocal, to the point of having diarrhea of the mouth. I sure wish he would shut up- then he might actually appear intelligent.

  24. Big Dog says:

    No Darrel, I am not a researcher. I actually work in the industry and see what goes on. I can prove anything with research depending on what I want.

    You gave anecdotal evidence of all the people you asked while you were there and made it look like that proved they had it good.

    Too many studies that show it wrong. You just grab the one that says what you like and call the others “roasted” because they did not agree with your view.

    You assume that even if socialized medicine was good our government could run it effectively.

    It can’t.

    • Darrel says:

      Bigd: I actually work in the industry and see what goes on.>>

      Hence the irony. You work in one of the VERY few systems that actually is 100% socialized. And you already SAID, it was the “best in the world.”


      “How many here have actually worked in military medicine? The care is the best in the world, the administrative side and the costs leave little to be desired. Military medicine is a bit of a specialty of mine.”
      –Big Dog, Monday Jun 15th, 2009 at 23:09

      Bigd: I can prove anything with research depending on what I want.>>

      Okay, then show me a comprehensive analysis of the US health system in comparison with peer countries and show me that the US comes out ahead. I can bury you in such comprehensive studies and the US, shamefully, GETS CREAMED.

      Bigd: You gave anecdotal evidence of all the people you asked while you were there and made it look like that proved they had it good.>>

      I specifically said it was anecdotal and said to look to the actual research which I have cited and can again. I thought it would be interesting to mention my own person attempt, while on vacation, to find Canadians who had waited too long. I couldn’t. Completely unscientific of course. The fact that I couldn’t find any, doesn’t prove much, but it is consistent with the researching showing the problem is insignificant.

      Bigd: You assume that even if socialized medicine was good our government could run it effectively.>>

      Another misunderstanding you keep peddling. None of our peer countries have “socialized medicine.” Even the UK, which leans the most that way, has private Doc’s.

      If you want to see socialized medicine at work, go to work. It’s the best. According, to, you.

      ps. I am not for socialized medicine. I am for what works, has the best results, lowest cost, least waste, most freedom and covers everyone.

      All of our peer countries, wealthy nations, are better at achieving those goals than the US is.

  25. Big Dog says:

    I don’t work in socialized medicine.

    If I worked for the VA or the Military health care system I would not be working in socialized medicine. The medical services provided are compensation for service to the country. They are not free services for people who cannot afford their own health care.

    You take what I said out of context. I said the care given is the best (and military medicine brings innovation to the civilian world) but that the administration leaves a lot to be desired. The VA is charging private health insurance for service related injuries in order to defray costs because it is run poorly.

    There is a difference between having a poorly run system and having good people in that system doing a great job despite the problems. Military people work hard but let us not forget that the military system is paid for out of Defense money and the service is provided as compensation, a benefit of service.

    If people without insurance want to join the service they too can get care as part of their compensation.

    • Darrel says:

      Bigd: “I don’t work in socialized medicine.”>>

      The system you work in, if it is military medicine, is pure socialized medicine, top to bottom, through and through. Sorry to be the one to break the news to you. You love it, you say it has “the best care,” and it’s COMPLETELY socialized.

      I just read the following book and gave a lecture on it (75 attended, and I am going to do it again for a local cable TV channel):

      “The Healing of America: A Global Quest for Better, Cheaper, and Fairer Health Care”

      T. R. Reid traveled the world and carefully studied many of our peer countries health care systems while living in each country (he also did a Frontline show on this called “Sick Around the World”).

      Page 12:

      “Socialized medicine” may be a scary term, but in practice, Americans rather like government-run medicine. The Department of Veterans Affairs is one of the world’s purest models of socialized medicine at work. In the Medicare system, covering about 44 million elderly or disabled Americans, the federal government makes the rules and pays the bills. And yet both of these” socialized” health care systems are enormously popular with the people who use them and consistently rate high in surveys of patient satisfaction.”

      Bigd: If I worked for the VA or the Military health care system I would not be working in socialized medicine.>>

      I am sorry, but you are completely, 100%, confused. And that’s putting it nicely. It doesn’t get more socialized than the military and VA systems. No country has a system that is more socialized. It would not be possible to be MORE socialized.

      Bigd: The medical services provided are compensation for service to the country.>>

      That’s nice. A social program, for those who serve and have served. Imagine countries that have a similar (but less socialized) program for all citizens. This is what our peer countries do. All of them. And it saves them a lot of money, wastes far less, covers everyone and gets better results.

      Bigd: They are not free services for people who cannot afford their own health care.>>

      They are free services and whether they can afford them or not, is irrelevant. That is how such systems work, and quite the point of them. With well over 100,000 veterans homeless (closer to 200k), there are a lot who would of course be a lot of veterans not able to afford health care.

      But thanks to this US government social program, they are covered. This is something to take national pride in. Good job America! This is the country stepping up and doing what is right.

      That there are so many homeless vets however, is not something to be proud of.

      Bigd: You take what I said out of context.>>

      Of course I did not. There is no context that can change what you said. So instead, you try to simply change/deny what you said.

      Bigd: I said the care given is the best (and military medicine brings innovation to the civilian world) but that the administration leaves a lot to be desired.>>

      Actually, you said the exact opposite of that. Again, as quoted above:

      “…the administrative side and the costs leave LITTLE to be desired.” –Bigd

      Caps mine.

      The antonym of “lot” is “little.” There is only one.


      • Blake says:

        You are giving LECTURES??????? Ah, Crap, now I know why we are so uneducated- we have Canuks teaching our kids (probably how to beer- bong Labatts)

  26. Big Dog says:

    I have always said the administration of the VA is horrible. If I wrote it the way you put it then I simply made a mistake then which might be why there was confusion and you claiming I loved it.

    The VA is always overrun in cost. It takes months for people to get treatment. Don’t know where they get the satisfaction ratings though I suspect that people might be satisfied with their care once they get it. I don’t know. My dealings have been with military medicine which is different than VA. Military medicine has a lot of good providers but it is constantly over cost and there are always administrative problems.

    As for thew VA, I cannot say what kind of care they all get but the caregivers I know who work there are good people.

    However, I know a lot of people who get treatment there and they are not satisfied with the system. Neither is Congress when a Republican is president.

    If the VA is socialized medicine then the administration is a reason we do not want it for all. It is not efficient and people wait forever while getting the run around.

    There are plenty of VA stories for you to read by people who deal with the system (rather than just knowing the people like me). Read what they write.

    As for the military system. It is not socialized. Not everyone is eligible, it is limited to those insured by their service. It is no different than someone working for a company and being eligible for company provided insurance. The military provides its own insurance in the way of medical care.

    I can tell you that it is grossly over budget and poorly run. It takes forever to get certain things and many soldiers and retirees opt for private companies that they can go to under Tricare.

    You think you know what you are talking about but you do not. Go there and be part of the system and then tell me about it. If this is good to you then it is no wonder you think Canada is great.

    Tired of arguing this. I don’t care what Canada has. If I wanted these things I would move there. It is obviously not that great or you would still be there.

    Let the free market do its thing without the government and things will be cheaper. I have written about this.

    I refuse to see how giving health care to everyone as if it is a right will solve problems instead of making them worse. You get more of what you subsidize and we will have more people opting for “free” which means someone else pays for it.

    I am tired of paying for social programs. 60% or so of the spending is for social welfare and I am tired of it.

    We need to have another revolution over the whole tax thing.

    • Darrel says:

      Bigd; “Let the free market do its thing without the government…”>>

      This from a person who works in a completely socialized system of health care, and at the same time, says this care “is the best in the world.”

      And I agree.

      Amazing what one cannot see when they are completely blinded by ideology.


      “A team of researchers recently set out to compare the quality of VHA care with that of care in a national sample by using a comprehensive quality-of-care measure.

      *VA scores highest in quality of care*

      The research team found that patients from the VHA scored 16 percentage points higher for adjusted overall quality…

      For chronic disease care, the VA finished 13 percentage points higher…

      For preventive care, the VA finished 20 points higher (64% vs. 44%; difference [CI, 12 to 28 percentage points]). The comparison the VA did not win was for acute care.

      The VHA held the strongest advantage in processes targeted by VHA performance measurement, where the VA finished 23 percentage points ahead of the competition…

      From the study, the research team concludes that patients receiving socialized, government-run medicine from the VHA received higher-quality care according to a broad measure…

      What this study really says is that the more accurately we measure, the more we begin to see that socialized, government-run medical programs like the VA provide extremely high quality medical care.

      …This recent study of the government-run VA medical system shows that contrary to those doubters, government-run healthcare leads in nearly every measurable category.”


      You should be proud of the what these hard working people at the VA have accomplished for our veterans. Instead you ignorantly and baselessly bash them.

      • Big Dog says:

        Darrel, are you too stupid to understand English. I did not say it was the best system in the world only that the people provide the best care in the world. I specifically know about military medicine which is not socialized, I know less about the VA. I never said they were the best system in the world. I wonder where you get the idea that I work in either system.

        Military medicine is not socialized medicine and I am tired of you twisting things around.

        Let me be clear, they are not socialized, I do not work in socialized medicine and the system is not the best in the world. There is a difference between the care one gets and how much one pays. The cost is staggering and is borne by the department of defense.

        You know little about any of it so best not to speak. Take your own advice.

        • Darrel says:

          Bigd: “I did not say it was the best system in the world only that the people provide the best care in the world.>>

          And that is EXACTLY what I said you said, while quoting you verbatim. It’s all above, in black in white. Including your distortion and completely misreading of your own claim:

          “How many here have actually worked in military medicine? The care is the best in the world, the administrative side and the costs leave little to be desired. Military medicine is a bit of a specialty of mine.”
          –Big Dog, Monday Jun 15th, 2009 at 23:09

          Here is the link:

          This means, according to you, that military medicine provides health care that is “the best in the world.”

          BigD: I specifically know about military medicine which is not socialized,>>

          It is completely socialized. It could not be more socialized. The VA’s system is also completely socialized medicine. It could not be more so.

          I am sorry you don’t know what you are talking about. But there it is.

          “Socialized medicine has been tried in the United States, and it has proven superior to health care supplied by the private sector…

          The socialized medicine to which I refer is the complex of hospitals managed by the Veterans Administration. Longman cites a study published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2003 comparing veterans’ hospitals with fee-for-service health care funded by Medicare… By every criterion, the New England Journal found the veterans’ hospitals to be superior…

          Surveys by the National Committee for Quality Assurance and other organizations, have reached the same conclusion. The superiority of VA hospitals is so obvious that by now it ought to be common knowledge. But it isn’t, because an insane political consensus that firmly opposes turning health care over to the government—because the government is presumed incapable of doing anything well—doesn’t want to hear that government hospitals are outperforming private hospitals.”

          The Triumph of Socialized Medicine.

    • Darrel says:

      Bigd: “There are plenty of VA stories for you to read by people who deal with the system (rather than just knowing the people like me). Read what they write.”>>

      Yes, let’s take a careful look at that:

      VA — more than fine

      WaPo reports on the sixth year in a row that the VA has outperformed the private sector in customer satisfaction:

      Inpatient care received a rating of 83 on a 100-point scale; outpatient care got a rating of 80. In comparison, a similar survey of patients receiving private care found they rated their satisfaction at 73 for inpatient care and 75 for outpatient care.

      Nicholson attributed the high ratings to the changes in the system, such as implementation of electronic records to reduce the risk of errors.

      “Our system has become not only much more efficient, but safer,” Nicholson said.

      The VA is the only completely insulated government-run system in the U.S. Medicaid and Medicare, although their growth of spending tends to be much more predictable than the private sector, still exist within it. They rely on our fractured care delivery system, lack of preventative care, and inefficient system of paperwork and hard copy medical records. In the private sector, that means to uncontrolled spending, bad health outcomes, and especially medical errors.

      The VA not only routinely out-performs the private sector, it arrived at that level of quality after years at the bottom of the barrel. When conservatives harp about Medicare Part D and conclude “government can’t do anything right” — here’s another direction to point them. The only truly government-run system in the U.S., and it provides better care than all the others.”


  27. Big Dog says:

    No, you are wrong again. Yes, I spent many years working in military medicine though the term a bit of a specialty of mine (though true) was a knock at how you always said something was your specialty.

    It is not socialized and your study compares VA to fee for service Medicare. It does not compare to the private sector because the private sector always beats any government care.

    Socialized would be where people pay in so others could have care without doing anything for it. People who receive VA or military care paid for it. It is government provided but not socialized and the costs are astronomical. The military system cannot compete with private insurance for good care at a reasonable cost. You get great care but it is very expensive.

  28. Big Dog says:

    The study asks veterans what they think of the care they receive at the VA and asks non veterans how they feel about the care they receive at non VA facilities. These are non comparable items. Each group is a different type of population receiving care for different things. Veterans mostly for service connected items and the rest of the population for all kinds of problems.