“Boumediene v. Bush

On June 12, 2008, the United States Supreme Court ruled, in Boumediene v. Bush, that the Military Commissions Act could not remove the right for Guantanamo captives to access the US Federal Court system. And all previous Guantanamo captives’ habeas petitions were eligible to be re-instated. The judges considering the captives’ habeas petitions would be considering whether the evidence used to compile the allegations the men and boys were enemy combatants justified a classification of “enemy combatant.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_combatants

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fog_of_War

Cheney and Limbaugh are Chickenhawks, Clinton is not. There is a difference.

My pardon scenario is an excellent solution and your provide nothing in response.

You “hope the next attack to happens in some liberal place.” Of course you do. Your hatred has impaired your ability to think.

D.

I do not assume that no one other than Ventura is an experienced veteran.

It’s unfortunate that you weren’t water boarded. You would probably have a different opinion.

I read your Holder link. It supports my position, not yours. He is arguing that when we have a training exercise and do a version of waterboarding on our own people to prepare them (for torture by an enemy), it’s not torture.

Regarding the law not mentioning “waterboarding,” as the wiki article points out, the word was not coined until recently. About 2003.

Before that we just considered it broadly under the category of water torture, which it is. It’s always been torture and it’s always been wrong because torture is wrong.

D.

They do not represent any one country, they represent an ideology and they do not wear uniforms. President Bush decided to confer Geneva protection on them but he did not have to.

We should declare them Prisoners of War and then we could keep them until the end of hostilities and we would have to do it in a POW camp, not a criminal jail.

DAR
Because we said we would? Because we are better than that? Because we don’t let the lowest common denominator terrorist set the bar for *our standards*? Because we want to have the moral high ground?

Because if you don’t stand by your principles when they are put to the test, then they really weren’t your principles.

D.

He has his opinion. Lots of people got deferments. When a guy like Cheney or Limbaugh gets one they are cowards but when guys like Clinton avoid the draft they are opposed to the war based on their high moral convictions.

I know people who say that sitting in line at the MVA is torture. There are a few who have been waterboarded who say it is not torture. I don’t know what I would call it but I don’t intend to have it done to me.

I am not out causing problems.

The ticking time bomb scenario is what they call it and it is not designed to be a TV myth. They discuss imminent problems requiring a fast decision. Belittle it if you wish but they happen.

As for the pardon scenario, I would not buy it. Obama said it hurt our moral character and that is not what we do. If he allowed it and then forgave it he would have to forgive all others and he would be a huge hypocrite.

He is boxed in on the issue.

I don’t care what they do or how they do it. Things DEFINED as torture by the law should not be done. I only hope that the next attack takes place in some liberal place that supported the man so the rest of us don’t have to pay for the mistakes.

However, I know some who have and whether it is torture or not is a matter of opinion among them.

The stunt with the DJ was a voluntary action. If you volunteer it is your own decision.

Our troops, and THAT is who I am talking about (I don’t care if others volunteer) do not volunteer. They are put through this in SERE training.

If we cut people’s fingers off as part of interrogation we would say that was torture (and I would agree). If someone volunteered to have that done we would say that they were nuts.

If a soldier had his finger cut off in mandatory training would we say it was NOT torture?

Here is where Holder said that intent was what made it torture. Notice how he gets all tied up on this issue.

A side not the piece has is interesting:
ACM note: I’m not sure whether the Spanish Inquisition had a torture statute — the United States did not have one until 1994, and to this day federal torture law does not mention waterboarding. Nor does the federal war crimes statute. As I’ve recently noted, Sen. Kennedy posed an amendment in 2006 that would have specified waterboarding as a war crime — something he wouldn’t have needed to do if it were already a war crime. The amendment was defeated [emphasis mine]

There is a simple solution for this if such an unlikely situation were to occur.

The presidents right to pardon is absolute.

Ticking time bomb scenario, someone from the gov. does to them as they wish in an attempt to get this important emergency information.

Outcome:

Nuke is found, city is saved, president pardons gov. person and they become a hero.

Nuke is not found, city is destroyed, president pardons gov. person… “well, we did everything we could.”

The ticking time bomb excuse is BOGUS.

BIGD: “what about the people who say it is not torture?”

DAR
Waterboard them and they will change their mind. Start with Sean Hannity who already agreed to do it. (btw, did he lie when he said that Blake?)

Find me someone who has been waterboarded who thinks it isn’t torture. I can find lots who have, and do. I’m not so impressed with the chicken hawks (that fill the republican party).

D.
————–
VENTURA: I don’t have a lot of respect for Dick Cheney. Here’s a guy who got five deferments from the Vietnam War. Clearly, he’s a coward. He wouldn’t go when it was his time to go. And now he is a chicken hawk. Now he is this big tough guy who wants this hardcore policy. And he’s the guy that sanctioned all this torture by calling it enhanced interrogation.

KING: Do you think Rush Limbaugh’s a better Republican than Colin Powell?

VENTURA: No, not at all. In fact, if you compare the two, let’s look at Colin Powell, who’s a war hero, who strapped it on for his country, and didn’t run and hide.

KING: Twice.

VENTURA: And then you look at Dick Cheney who ran and hid. I have no respect for Dick Cheney. I have tremendous respect for General Powell.
–ibid

Happy Memorial day.

DAR
You really cannot seen any distinction here? I gave five specific reasons delineating the difference between Man Cow’s media stunt and what was done to these to prisoners. I think reasonable people will be able to see through such an equivocation and that there is a difference.
If I have two sons and I give one a new Ford Mustang to drive to college and I give the other one a radio controlled Ford Mustang from Radio Shack, it can be said that “I gave a car to each of my sons.” But this is an equivocation and reasonable people, and my sons, can see the difference.

“I don’t care what Ventura says…”

DAR
Of course you don’t. He is an experienced veteran who has had the procedure done to him, so do I care what he says about this.

“Change the law and make it abundantly clear by using the words waterboarding.”

DAR
Obama has already banned it. Note:

“In January 2009 U.S. President Barack Obama banned the use of waterboarding. In April 2009 the Department of Defense refused to say whether it was still used for training purposes.”

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=46974

The DOD doesn’t need to say whether it is using it as a training exercise because when they do it as a training exercise, on volunteers, it’s not torture. Obviously.

Oh, and regarding your claim that Obama’s AG says it’s not torture. Observe:

“On January 15, 2009 the U.S. President-elect Barack Obama’s nominee for Attorney General, Eric Holder, told his Senate confirmation hearing that waterboarding is torture and the President cannot authorize it.” [67][68][69][70]
–wiki, waterboarding article